August 26, 2007
Alan Watt on Red Ice Radio
with Henrik Palmgren from Sweden


"Episode: North American Union, Police Provocateurs and Staged Riots"
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Henrik Palmgren: Hi friends, this is Henrik Palmgren and you are listening to Red Ice Creations Radio.  Nice to have you with us.  Thank you for tuning into the program.  We are here every Sunday and Thursday, recording a new program as usual from the West Coast of Sweden.  And this is the last Sunday of August.  I hope you all had a good weekend.  We just had a few days here away from September and this must be the fastest summer on record, at least for me.  Just incredible how this summer has passed by.  But anyway, I'm glad that you're here and tuned in today, because we have our good friend, Alan Watt back on the program.  We are returning to our regular schedule here.  Alan joins us last Sunday each month.  Of course, Alan's website, the main website, is  Lots of material is regularly posted up there, blurbs and so forth, and do follow along on his website.  Also take a look at for some transcripts and other info on some other languages than English.  Okay, and today I thought we could spend some time talking a little bit about the North American Union.  Some very interesting events took place in Canada during the last couple of days, just a few days ago.  Also, a demonstration, a peaceful demonstration with some real interesting developments as it were, as the Canadian police attempted to stage riots it seems up there, during an SPP peaceful demonstration.  But we'll talk more about that later.  Let's bring Alan Watt on the program.  Welcome back Alan, thank you for returning.   Excellent, thanks for coming back.  It's always nice to have you on the line.  You know, as I said, there was a North American leaders summit in Montebello, I think it's called, Quebec, Canada, just a few days ago.  The Security and Prosperity Partnership Summit, SPP, and of course the Three Amigos, as it were, the presidents of Canada, USA, and Mexico met.  Well, I don't know if there's much that those gringos can discuss, but I guess it's to send a message across that also that the North American Union isn't far off now.  And even though the mainstream media still, except I guess Lou Dobbs on CNN, still, the mainstream media is calling this a crazy conspiracy theory that such things are in the plans.  And it's just incredible the level they keep the discussion.  And I kind of moved on pretty quickly from there, and recognized, okay, so they have plans to join the Continent under a centralized government.  No big surprise there.  They've done it in Europe.  They're doing it in Africa.  They are going to do it in Asia.  And they sure as heck are going to do the same in America.  Right, Alan?


Alan: There’s no doubt.  It’s an old plan, well written about long ago, and they're just following the agenda.  And this past week on my blurb, on the website, I played some of the initial news that came out in 2005 with the first openly public signing of the agreements, the first part of the open integration for the public, where the Council on Foreign Relations was on National Television, the CBC is owned by the government of Canada, like the BBC, and from coast to coast they told us that the Council on Foreign Relations had drafted up the bills for the integration and presented them to the politicians, and that is true, because the Council on Foreign Relations, which is the American branch for the Royal Institute for International Affairs, they're the group behind this, and they're not elected.  They're a non-governmental organization that are charted by the British Crown to bring in global government.  So, it's funny to see the press backtracking, the same press that was talking about it openly, backtracking upon it now, as though they hadn't said anything before.  This is pretty typical. 


Henrik: It's so weird, you know, they keep the discussion on this level.  I mean, again, it's no surprise, and then to call it that this is a, you know, whatever, conspiracy theory, or that just you know, wackos are discussing that they're trying to unite the American continent.  It's incredible. 


Alan: Yes.  What it is, it's a form of psychological boxing match, where we the public are in the middle and we're getting punch drunk.  We're hit from the left and the right, and we're punch drunk.  They will tell you one story, the same media will admit it to you, what they're doing, and then two weeks later deny it.  It's Orwellian doublespeak.


Henrik: Sure.  Yeah.  And again, we have news coming out, official news first being released from, I think it was the Pentagon who released that they had set up an entire budget around creating fake news and having fake reporters out there and all of this.  And I think the first news release after that was that the previous one was a fake, or something like that.


Alan: Yeah.  And what they're doing is creating a form of surrealism, until the public don't know what to believe and they simply switch off and allow it all to happen to them.


Henrik: Yeah, that's right, exactly.  What is going on, and who can unravel it, and that's why in a way, also in regards to mainstream news, I kind of want to keep that on a distance, myself, and not be too, you know, involved, at not least emotionally in it, but we can study it, of course, because it's interesting in trying to track what the heck is going on.  But still, I always have that kind of in the back of my mind that I know that this actually might be fake in itself, so, you know, don't get too upset about it, or you know, what can we do in that sense anyway.  It's just a news report.  I mean, it's another thing if it's being implemented on and effected by on our lives directly, and then we can do something about it.  But in the meantime, I mean, it's just news, right?


Alan: Yes.  It's just data, data.


Henrik: That's right.  You know what, another thing of course, speaking of different kind of unions and all this, I guess also that the talk of the Amero might be ongoing in connection with the North American Union.  We have the same thing, again, in Europe, the Euro, so it's no mystery there.  I'm sure this is something that's on the horizon, and I don't know what your take might be on it, but I guess that the recent economic turmoil that is kind of ongoing in the States right now, might be a precursor to this in any way.  How are things over there? Is Canada in any way affected by this?


Alan: Everyone is.  There's no doubt.  You go into the stores for groceries or whatever, your staple things and they're going up all the time.  Everything that's under transportation especially, comes to you through either train, aircraft, or tractor trailers, they all use diesel.  And the cost of fuel is soaring up.  And so, everything is tacked on to the prices of all the goods that are shipped.  So, naturally, everything is going up and up.  However, see, money is a means to an end for the Big Boys.  It's not the whole game.  It's more important that we believe it's real than they do, in fact, so that we use it.  And they had it planned long ago that step by step, they would take you to a European currency for one generation, and an Americas currency for one generation.  And then one for the Far East, and then gradually merge the whole lot into one common world currency.  So, we're just living a script, step by step, that was written long ago, and they're training us just to accept the change, that's all. 


Henrik: Yeah, exactly.  It takes no crystal balls, you know, or scrying techniques in order to foresee this future, because it's right there, and it's in the works.  And I think the new, but the coming world currency, I think it was called the Phoenix, if I remember correctly, the Phoenix currency.


Alan: It could very well be, the bird that rises out of its ashes, is reborn every five hundred years.  So, I wouldn't be surprised, and they do like five.  I wouldn't be surprised at all, but money, money is such an incredible trick.  When you look at people today, they've already accepted, mainly, or for most of them, the cashless society.  They don't use money at all.  It doesn't matter if it's numbers on a computer or paper or whatever, as long as they believe it's real, and they can buy something with it.  They really don't care what it's called, you know.  They really don't care. 


Henrik: Sure, it's moving towards, you know, we have credits or whatever, exactly.  And of course, one of the potential dangers of going off the cash is that it's very easy for, if someone wanted to kind of freeze your assets or something like this, either if you have to go to an ATM, but even if that isn't around, you have to pay with your card, and for some reason you are non-favorable towards the ruling power or whatever, they can cut you off right there, and you have no power then.


Alan: You're a non-person.  You have no power, no rights.  You just don't exist.  And back in the 1950s, Bertrand Russell, who was a big, big player in planning, helping plan this format for the next hundred years, said eventually we'll train the public to accept credits from the government, rather than an employer.  So, the government would technically be your employer.  And they'd use it as a form of social control.  So, if you behaved and followed all the rules, you would get a full injection of a set amount of credits into your account every Monday, but you couldn't save them up.  You'd have to spend them all, and that which you don't spend is simply erased.  Every Monday you begin with the same amount.  And if you didn't behave yourself, they would withdraw that, and you couldn't pay rent or for food, and that will be used for a form of social punishment.  And that's what they're aiming at.  We're being trained, just like laboratory rats.


Henrik: Yeah, okay.  You know, I'm thinking about the kind of development of what is referred to as the snitch culture.  You know, when you tell on your friends or neighbors, or whatever, family members that either have, you know, something that is against the law or something like that, could get extra credit into your account.


Alan: Yes.  We have it here too.  We've got the same programs here too.  They call it Tips.  And you just tip off on your neighbor, and if they can charge that neighbor with something, then you get a reward.  They're turning us into the new Soviet.  In fact, it's already here.


Henrik: Sure, sure.  And everybody's eyes is the eyes of the government.  And everyone is going to be hardwired into, you know, that, we'll have cell phone cameras, something like that mounted right into the eyes.


Alan: Yes, this is coming.


Henrik: Oh, my god.  The bionic.  Yeah, exactly.  You know, one thing I wanted to talk a little bit about here also, is last time we talked about mobs, flash mobs as they refer to them too, and riots and things like this.  And there is a very interesting follow-up to that, to that story we talked about last time.  And during this meeting that we talked about earlier that took place in Quebec, some peaceful protesters at this SPP or Security and Prosperity Partnership summit in Canada, apparently Canadian Police were caught attempting to stage a riot during a peaceful protest.  And this was of course after a youtube video was posted about this stuff.  And I was looking at this, and about 250,000 people have seen this so far, and afterwards, of course, the CBC, as you mentioned, CBC News came out and said that Quebec police admitted that they went undercover at these protests.  Isn't that incredible?


Alan: Yes.  Yes, it was a different department of police who caught these guys, who had masks on, but they all had the same police-issue boots and that's what gave them away.  And the guys checked them out and found out they were policemen.  And they were there to try and start, get the public to riot.  That was their job, to start a riot.


Henrik: And I think there was, I can't remember his name now, but I think it was actually a union leader or something like that.  And he was smart enough to actually catch these guys and spot what was going on.  And probably if he hadn't had been there this could have developed into another, you know, huge riot, basically.  You know, with tear gas.


Alan: What they do is to get the young to riot.  And then they show it on television, and those who are older, switch off mentally.  They just say, oh, it's the youth again.  And that's how this process works.  It's an interesting study in psychology.  When the older ones see the youth rioting, they immediately cancel out not only the youth rioting, but the cause.  They don't think about the cause, either.  They put the whole topic out of their minds.  And that's a psychological form of, just like computer deletion, when you're overloaded; they switch off.  The topic goes out of their mind and they sit back and they don't think about it any more, and they allow these laws and rules to be passed on them, which is bringing them into this brand new scientific slavery system that we're going towards. 


Henrik: Incredible.  And, yeah exactly, this was just a few radical, I think it was three guys in total, just being out there, you know, with some sticks and stones and stuff like this, and getting ready to.


Alan: They had other ones there too.


Henrik: They had, okay.


Alan: Yeah, they'd have other ones there.  Every major police department and the RCMP and the Security CSIS would even have people involved in there.  You wouldn't believe at the top of most groups, you know, they have infiltrators.  They always infiltrate groups.  They love groups, in fact.  They'll encourage them to start up.  Sometimes they'll start them up for you.  And they'll lead you, because it's much easier to get two or three thousand people doing what you want under the command of one leader than to try and persuade each one individually to actually take action.  You expect that.


Henrik: And one thing here that's incredible to me is that what the heck, as you said, these guys had the same shoes, because underneath, the story here is that you could actually see because the police let these three stone-throwing, mask-wearing anarchist look-alikes behind the police line, and kind of did this kind of fake arrest thing on these guys, and during this time, of course, they were down at the ground and someone actually took a photograph of this, so you could clearly see that the soles of both the police, and the so-called, you know, anarchists or whatever, the stone-throwers there, and as you say, they had the same shoes on.  But, I mean, my God.  That's so poor planning.  I mean, do they want to get caught.  I mean, there's no mastermind behind this plan, you know. 


Alan: Well, they hire, at that level, you see, they leave it to the lower orders of their police, etc, and so they're not too swift.  And also too, they don't expect to be caught.  They really don't expect to be caught.  You see, they've been doing this for so many years now, they're becoming cocky about it.  Very arrogant about it.  And so, they're used to doing it and getting away with it, so they start to slip up.


Henrik: Well, yeah, yeah, that could be.  I mean, I'm certainly, you know, get my memories taken back to a thing that happened here in Sweden, in Gothenburg, the second largest city in Sweden.  In 2001 when we had huge riots during an EU top meeting, and Sweden was hosting the EU, also President Bush was here, and this was in the summer of 2001, so this was previous to 9/11 and all that.  And basically, the central parts of town were in flames.  You know, windows crushed, street furniture was torched, police and protesters were clashing and one guy was shot, and I always had this kind of idea in the back of my mind that something took place there that actually fueled this event even more.  There were actually speculations that they let in right wing extremists who clashed with the left wing extremists in order to create this.  But I wouldn't be surprised if there was some real, you know, professional provocateurs in there and actually getting this riot going, basically.


Alan: This is standard.  It's standard all down through history, in fact.  Even the Romans used to do that sometimes.  They'd take some guys out of the army and dress them in more civilian type clothing and get them to riot, and then the Caesar would turn his troops out on the whole of society for protection, take their rights away, and then start dominating over the whole lot of them.  It's old techniques, with using provocateurs.  So, I don't see why they'll stop it.  And that's why people who go to these meetings, have got to be awfully cautious that they don't get carried away with emotion, and don't follow along like sheep, you know. 


Henrik: Yeah, exactly.  That's right.  And I guess it's exactly.  It becomes kind of a herd mentality.  As soon as blood is flowing and the adrenaline gets flowing, people lose their head basically, and they're stupid, basically at that stage.  You know.


Alan: At that stage, yeah it is.  As you say, it's a herd instinct that takes over.  Almost a tribal instinct.  And all reason goes out the window.  And then you're getting used for someone else's purpose.  And you certainly aren't helping your cause.  But I understand the frustration too, amongst people who watch this farce of democracy, we're told we're democratic, and yet, we really have no say in any part of the future.  It's all been planned for us.


Henrik: Yeah.  And isn't that, you know, again, interesting, considering what we talked about last time with the flash mobs and all that.  The police now actually have to go in there themselves to create this.  You know, inherently, people might be in that sense, very, perhaps it's because of the level of sedation, basically through all the stuff that is out there, but more generally, people might be pretty peaceful in that way, and just want to show their anger or disappointment in a fairly, in a decent way, you know, they go out there, they have their placards, and do a little song and dance, or whatever.  But to actually have now police in there and starting up the riots, it also shows you that they themselves might be behind everything of this, in order to create the flash mobs, create the riots, again then, to create the chaos that we talk about so often here.  Create the chaos in order to bring in a more heavily police force, and you know, all of that stuff.


Alan: That's right.  To get chaos amongst society, you've got to get someone to give the pretense, the plausible excuse, for taking the rights of the people away completely, and that's what they're heading towards.  So they will finance terrorist attacks.  I have no doubt about it.  They've done it in the past.  And they've used this con game over and over, and the reason it works so well is because the lie is so huge.  And often the cost in lives is so huge.  The average person cannot possibly believe that a human being could sacrifice ordinary people just to get an agenda through.  That's why it works so well.


Henrik: Yeah, exactly.  I think back on the, I think it was the FRU, the Force Research Unit in the United Kingdom under the Ministry of Defence that actually was behind a lot of the bombings, you know, in Ireland, I think and even in the United Kingdom itself.


Alan: That's right.  I can remember when there was postal boxes just blowing up in different places in London spontaneously.  No one ever saw a terrorist.  It's just like the movie Brazil.  They used this technique in the movie, and no one ever sees a terrorist, but the government keeps shouting terrorism, terrorism.  Of course, the government was behind it. 


Henrik: Of course.  And it's kind of a suspicion everywhere and everyone is a potential terrorist, as it were. 


Alan: Yes.  So this is an old, old technique.  And when they want to go to war, they've got to get the excuse to go to war, so they must get public opinion on their side, therefore starting the catastrophe is nothing new at all.  They always give you a fairly plausible reason, but they never give you the real reason.


Henrik: Yeah, by the way, do you think there will be, I don't know if we had talked about this before or not, but considering all the talk about that they're going to implement the new world order, after three world wars.  This goes back of course to Albert Pike and his letter to Giuseppe Mazzini and all that.  But do you see, you know, a Third World War developing, or is it necessary?  Do they even have to do that any more?  Is the control so implemented at this point?


Alan: Well, we're in it.  We are in World War III, already.  And, you see, war, like Professor Carroll Quigley said, has different purposes, but one of the main purposes of war from an elite standpoint, or viewpoint, is to change societies in all the conflicting sides.  Because during war, government takes over all the major areas of your society and economics.  And bureaucracies just start to grow and grow and grow.  Out of World War II, most of the European economy was totally changed, with bureaucracies running the farming industry and all the main industries, and even the private lives of the citizens, with new rules and regulations and taxations.  So, you emerge from a war as a different society than the one you went into it with.  And it's so funny that Winston Churchill for instance, used all the propaganda, the usual stuff.  There was a whole team of writers that wrote for him, for his scripts, like they all do.  But he said, we must fight this Nazi tyranny, this National Socialism.  Well, Britain emerged from World War II as a National Socialistic country.  The government ran the whole of society and yet, even then, Churchill's secretary, his personal secretary has published a book called Fringes of Power.  It was released about four or five years ago, because they must keep it secret for fifty years.  This is the official secrets act.  This man is now a Sir, who's married into the Royal Family, the personal secretary of Churchill, and he said that Churchill was very good at telling the public to go out and fight to save their culture and their way of life, to fight theses Nazis, and yet, at parties at night, Churchill was talking to his own peer group, his own aristocracy, and he was saying, this is the best thing that ever happened, this war.  He said, because out of this, we will start an Economic Union, and a complete merger of Europe.  That's published now.  We're on a chessboard, and most folk their whole lives never even notice that we're on a chessboard and they're being used.


We always see the short-term plans, but we've got to go beyond that and see what's the long-range agenda.  Well, Gulf War I started, remember in about 1990.  And it hasn't stopped.  Even during the second quiet period, or the first quiet period, they were still bombing Iraq.  During Clinton's reign they were sending over cruise missiles, every other day.  And then they starved millions of people to death in Iraq, before they went and invaded it with the second Gulf War.  And during that time, look at what's happened to the whole world now, under terrorism.  Society is being made to believe that they must give away all their freedoms for safety.  And right after 9/11 every media on the planet was going around to the man on the street within a week, saying, would you give up your freedom for security?  This is all the agenda, is to allow yourself to be managed in a scientifically controlled society.  And at the end of it, like Rumsfeld said, this war might take a hundred years.  He was not talking about the war with the Middle East.  He was talking about the war on the whole of society, to bring it into a new, very much like a Brave New World type society, where the masses of the people will be purpose bred, and made for their purpose; while the elite, as they have said in their own books, like The Next Million Years, by Charles Galton Darwin, will not alter themselves.  So, this is the war.  It's a war to change the whole of what we thought was civilization, into a new way, where you will have no choices to make on your own.  You won't grow up and try and find work or make your way.  You won't grow up and pick a mate, your own mate to marry or have children with.  It will be a very selective system.  And that's what he's talking about.  We are in the war now.


Henrik: Do you think that this connects with their idea of what is commonly known and referred to as the Great Work?  That is unperfected by nature, that human beings, or, you know, humanity, that they are, or we are going to perfect it for nature?


Alan: That's right.  There are different levels of meaning. The low-level masons are taught that he is that which he must work on, the rough ashlar or rough stone.


Henrik.  Exactly.  It's an individual thing, the Great Work.


Alan: But on the higher levels, of course, they're talking about all of society, the whole structure of society, especially individual will.  They believe in unity.  Everything must be one.  And according to them, individualism is their worst enemy, and therefore, they must destroy it.  Today we live, and we emerged from the industrial era as the mass man with mass movements and mass opinions, and that was part of the whole thing to get us into the idea that we're all one big lump of humanity.  That was to do away with and eradicate individualism.  And yet individualism was the only safeguard that we had on this agenda for thousands of years, because it's been occasional individuals throughout history who have managed to take the agenda and push it right off course into a different direction that wasn't expected. 


Henrik: Yeah, exactly.  It's, you know, going back to the insect mentality again.  The ant people or whatever, trying to create this.  Because I guess also that under, if you want to build an empire.  If you want to have, you know, all the fancy cities and the empires, and you know, all the stuff that comes with that, you have to have a population that doesn't diverge from that agenda of what the collective should do.  As soon as you have a rogue individual element in there, this is potentially dangerous, and that person himself or herself can take more people with him or her, and bring ideas into the people, into the minds of the other people.


Alan: That's right.  And again we have this, it isn't just the elite you have to get through to here.  It's the bulk of the population who are stuck in their own little matrix, who think that their present system is perfect, at least as perfect as it could be.  And those who are doing better financially than others, don't think too deeply.  The person on the street has to think much more deeply, because they're a few dollars away from utter poverty or starvation.  So, everyone is trying to save something in this system, right now, and not let it go any further.  And I keep telling them, you can't save something which is teetering in the balance, a huge Tower of Babel that's held together with band-aids and glue, super glue, and it's all teetering away there, and there's so many band-aids on it, that we can't keep it up anymore.  It's got to fall down.  The thing is, the elite know this too.  And that's why they've decided to build a brand new one, which is their New World Order, the new structure.  And we mustn't go their way.  We've got to find another way.  And the problem is, you have so many other people who have already chosen the path they want, although it's been given to them.  They want to keep this system as it is, with high competition, the dog-eat-dog system, the shark-infested waters of society, where the top shark gets to the top by any means possible, and there's more losers at the bottom than winners at the top in this system.  That's the problem.  We can't save something.  We've got to go in a different direction, because our choice now is either to really prove for the first time perhaps that we have humanity in us.  And that's going to take a huge risk from every individual to trust other people and put yourself in their hands and them in yours, because we can't go on the way we're going.  As I say, the elite know it themselves, and they've already chosen the next direction they want us all to go in.


Henrik: Yeah.  That's right.  I think you're right on here.  I also see this as a kind of a window of opportunity here as the old system kind of collapses, they're trying to bring in the new, and at the same time, and this is I think central to the age that we are living in now, or the time that we're living in now, that in order to keep this structure or in order to have people, how should I put it, coming back to the system itself, or relying on the leaders, or relying on whatever security that is handed to you, they have to maintain this level of fear in society.  They have to keep the terrorism level high, so people are, you know, off-centered.  They aren't centered within themselves, I mean.  And because of this, people are afraid and their reaction to this is they are petrified and they're scared and because of this they're going to turn to any form of security or control that is given to them, you know. 


Alan: That's it.  That's exactly it.  And it's all promises of security.  It doesn't mean you're going to get security.  It's all promises as politicians are very good at giving promises.  And really, it's for an ulterior purpose as you say.  The purpose is to train everyone to simply obey, do what you're told.  We know from their own writings and publications that they want to vastly reduce the population of the planet.  We know this.  And the most efficient way to do it, is to get people going into crowded areas or cities already overcrowded, and then start releasing agents.  I have no doubt that this will happen.  We've been hearing for years now from the usual experts they drag out that the plague is just around the corner.  It has to come.  And they mean this.  That's what again the average Joe Citizen will have a hard time comprehending.  They can't believe anyone could be so monstrous as to do that, because I personally couldn't do that, therefore they couldn't do that.  That's our rationale.  But these guys literally sit like insects themselves at the top think tanks and calmly discuss vast population reductions.  They talk about, these are the same people who throughout the Cold War talked about using bioweaponry on the Soviets and European countries if necessary, including their allies.  If their ally starts to get taken over, even Britain, if Britain was to get taken over they would release all these bacteriological devices on the citizenry, rather than have the British eventually succumb and the next generation be brought up as Soviet.  These are cold-hearted creatures at the top who are paid to do this stuff on a daily basis.


Henrik: And in a system as ours, those guys are kind of bound to actually rise to the top, because again, the structure of the system itself is kind of laid out in that way that if you are totally ruthless and disconnected as they say, no connection with empathy and all that, you can manage to, you know, step on bones to get to the position that you want to get and so forth.


Alan: Yes.  This system, as I say, is a deviant system.  And only the deviants, the psychopathic types can get up there.  Where else, if you had a decent, good society, where else could these guys even get jobs?  Who wants mass murderers?  And yet they're on the payroll.  These characters are on the payrolls of the secret services and the big bio-weapons think tanks all over the world.  It's a scary thought, and this is what they do.  And I've read reports from reporters in Britain, who've gone into the bio-weapons facilities, like Porton Downs, and they've published articles in British newspapers.  And this one fellow in the Daily Mail, I think it was, he said, I couldn't believe how these guys calmly sat around in the coffee room, the tea room, just before they went to work, and calmly discussed their race-specific bio-weapons.  How they could release it and target a specific race or DNA type, and also have it sweep through a whole country in a matter of ten days and actually program the viruses to self-destruct after the billionth reproduction.  I mean, just programmed like a computer.  This is normal everyday science to these guys now. 


Henrik: I mean, again, if they have a background in the military, it isn't that farfetched to have that idea and then these kind of ideas aren't that far off.  As you say, they go to work.  This is work for them.  They're totally disconnected, and also of course, as we talked about before, they see themselves as these navigators of this society.  And you know, it's kind of, I guess the mentality up there is, you know, it's too bad, but we have to do it.  If no one else does it it's just going to get real ugly you know.  So it's rather fortunate that we are here, and actually doing this dirty work, you know. 


Alan: That's right.  It's very similar to someone having to put down their pet dog.  And there's always someone in the family who will make the person feel better.  Oh, it has to be done.  There's nothing else we can do.  And it will save them suffering in the long run, etc, etc.  Well, it's the same kind of conversation they have at the top in these think tanks.  The population must be reduced.  The poor souls are in chaos anyway.  The system is going down the hill.  It can't go on much longer, so we're just ending their suffering for them.  That's the same kind of rationale that's being used at the top.  And I've heard some of them personally in my travels throughout the world, who have told me that to my face, just in that manner, in fact.  Quite calmly.


Henrik: Okay.  And people are also educated into this system.  New people are coming in and they are educated into this kind of mentality and these kinds of conclusions about society, the world where we're going and so forth, and people again, we return to the idea that people aren't thinking of themselves, they're just trained into an idea of what is happening on the planet, and how things are going to go.  And based on that, they develop their new, you know, ideas or solutions or they develop something new out of that.  So again, it's more like the ultimate conspiracy is kind of the system in itself, how things are structured, because this is again self-perpetuating.  It's something that has a life on its own now. 


Alan: It has a life on its own, exactly, and as long as you have a moneyed system, or even a credit system, or any kind of rewards system, you simply will bring in the same structure again, because the same types will prosper through it.  And that's always been the way, over and over, down through the ages.  You can't keep the same rewards system and bring in a different party with a different policy or Marxism or anything else, because it always ends up back on the same path.  It's got to be a different way altogether.  And now, the elite have said themselves that the future society for the peasantry, basically, will be one where they're born to serve the state.  They mean the world state.  And that will be your duty to serve the world state, which really means serving them.  So, we have to do it a different way I think, and that's a matter of can we retain our conscious minds, our individuality, and do something similar but not for them. 


Henrik: Yeah.  Exactly, exactly.  I mean, inherently, I'm not against the idea, of course, of joining together and working.  That's what it's all about.  That's not at least what I'm, you know, saying that we aren't supposed to do here.  You were just speaking of individualism, and people are all, I guess, sometimes confused by that idea, and I think that's just because you're not a Commune-ist in that sense, that you're against working together and all that.  But that's not the idea here.  The idea is still that if we have strong individuals, I think that those are the best capable people of actually working together and get something done.


Alan: Yes, they are.  And it's true enough, the best leaders are the ones who are unconscious of the fact that they are leaders.  When you become conscious that you're a leader, you start second-guessing yourself. 


Henrik: That's interesting.  Yeah.  And I guess, as you mentioned, the trick here then is not to be dragged into their system of control or their system, or what version of society that they're going to offer you in the end.  The trick here is to, and who knows how this actually will come about and so forth, but, you know, what I see is developing some kind of, again, alternative society as the old one collapses and as the new one comes in, or that they'll bring that in.  Hopefully there will be a lot of people that aren't interested in being part, you know, of the new structure, and what it will mean to enter into that.  And hopefully also, again, there will be some kind of place, you know, on the planet that this actually will be possible to be or to live, or to grow your food, and all this stuff.  That's the idea here, you know.


Alan: That's the idea and again, it's a hard thing to even look at because it seems a mission impossible, because you look at all the people today and they're still stuck in their tribal instincts.  And people are still stuck with a tribal mentality, where they always have a favorite group who's their enemy, and if we just eradicate that group then everything will be fine.  They never look in the mirror and say, well, wait a minute, maybe I'm the problem too.  Because the problem is innate within all society, and that's what went back to religion in ancient times, pre-Christian, where they debated the nature of evil, what evil actually was.  And you know, your own concept of living and right and wrong alters, and it has altered drastically when you realize that they used religion, from the top, with some good social values stuck in there to make society work at the bottom.  But when Nietzsche said that God is Dead, that changed an awful lot, you know.  Because, when you suddenly wake up and realize that for thousands of years man never thought, he did nothing, he said nothing that didn't draw inspiration from the absolute belief that there was a God, you know.  And everything that he thought and did and saw in life was related to his teaching along that avenue.  When God was thrown out the window, you behaved, suddenly all those values are gone.  And yet, nothing was given to replace it.  And so they stumble along and are given this new system of commercialization, competitiveness, dog eat dog, psychopathic type system, which again, can't go on for too long.  But that's what it came from, is man really is a spiritual creature.  We are human, we are in the world of matter, but we're also spiritually based. And so, we don't know what it is, we just know that there's something beyond all of this.  It isn't just a fear of death, although that's used by the major religions, and the New Age religion, which is really an old age religion, which they bring up at the end of an age.  You find that people instinctively know there's something bigger than all of this, but it's definitely beyond any of the teachings that he's been given to follow.  However, the world itself, the world of matter that is at war with spirit at all times, will try and blanket that out of your mind and make you concentrate on the purely physical side of things, so you're caught up in this mad rush of competing and accumulating and getting ahead and getting above the poverty level, which everyone is terrified of, that's just made them trust really in the system, it’s to keep you in check.


Henrik: Sure.  Yeah, exactly.  Again, this just ties back to that they are also playing on your basic fundamental fears and also your needs, you know, survival, having food for the day and stuff like this.  Again, it always turns back to this.  And as you say, if we can disconnect from that, the fear that that brings with it as it were, and also, I think if you can develop a spiritual nature, in order, let's say that you can be at peace with yourself and actually trust that the universe in itself actually is something that is going to make sure that you survive.  You know, that you trust that things will be given to you in order to, in order so you can, you know, sustain your life, continue living.  Even there, tremendous amounts of fear would, you know, be overcome, you know. 


Alan: See, you can't have the better side of human nature manifest on a large scale in this particular system.  In fact, it stunts it.  It doesn't allow it, because, as you say, it's fear based.  When fear is predominant, any other emotion is suppressed and kept at the bottom.  So, you're not allowed to grow as a human being and find yourself and find out all the decency even, within yourself, because you are worried about being poor and sick and lonely and all these kinds of things, or even without a home.  But if that was all gone, then you could develop to the maximum, and that's never been allowed to happen before. 


Henrik: I wonder what world it would be if people, I mean think of all the stuff, even basic stuff, again, I return to that idea of even inventors that are inventing incredible stuff and everything connected from free energy of course, or whatever term that actually is, but being able to tap into other forms of energy.  There are so many things out there that humans are capable of doing and producing and even in a system like this one, people are, you know, breaking through that level and actually are inventing stuff like this, and what's the consequence?  What do the elite do?  Well, they either buy it up or murder the guy that's behind it or gal, you know.


Alan: Yes, because they can't allow freedom of any kind to manifest in their system.  They would lose control.  And I always tell people, you know, George Bush and others, I'm sure it's to become worldwide, under this World Socialist type system, they want everyone tested psychologically from birth to death, every year, to see if you're a throwback.  You've got a recessive gene whatever it happens to be.  You may become a criminal.  Remember even the definition of criminal can be expanded to include anything they want, including original thinker.  So, I propose that we should do it the opposite way.  We should demand that those who want power over us all go through the testing to see how many of them are psychopaths.


Henrik: Well, exactly, yeah.  Exactly.  Those who scream for the power are not the guys who, you know, are supposed to have the power.  That's the idea.


Alan: No one should be allowed to even go into your local school board and sit on your school board or have any decision-making over you, without being thoroughly tested and frequently tested, and their whole life and associations exposed to the public at all times, because unless that happens, you're going to have the psychopathic type always gravitating towards power, which is like a magnet to them.


Henrik: Yeah, exactly.  That's right.  And there is a kind of again, it's not a strange idea that psychological illness is out there.  People are, you know, many people are sick, and even they, because also we are being taught stuff about how to take care of your body.  Well, actually not that well, when you consider even that.  But, okay, given the idea that the discussion is there anyway, but speaking in psychological terms, there isn't even a talk about this.  I mean our people teach this kind of stuff in school, how to, you know, develop, or learn to live with your own psychology.  What is your being and so forth?  As far as I know there's not a single discussion about this in any school as far as I am aware of, anyway.


Alan: No, there's not.  No, this is a system we're in, and every part of it takes its orders from the department above it.  Education itself is simply a matter of standardization.  It's a method to standardize everyone into the same mindset.  Daniel Webster was the great orator, professional orator in the U.S. and he said that in the 1800s, he says, we shall bring in a school system, an education system, to basically standardize a particular type of culture that will be well behaved and will serve the state.  And that was the purpose of education.  Now you have international education under UNESCO, and the international education association, to make sure that you've got a world culture, all being trained along the same indoctrinations, so that wherever you go, you're going to get the same opinions from the people who’ve all had the same brainwashing.  It's a scientific process, like Bertrand Russell said, of indoctrination.


Henrik: That's right.  And even if there are people out there who are of different opinions, it's just about not letting them have a room to speak in or anything like that.  It leaves no space to, you know, weather their opinions about something.  So, just censor and leave those out, and we'll, you know, we'll be on our way towards our agenda, you know.


Alan: That's right, but that's the whole point of this whole system.  Psychopathic systems can only give you a psychopathic culture from the top down.  And that becomes normal after a generation.  You don't question why you're being trained to go into the world and compete and compete with everyone around you, and to be cunning and clever and work your way up over other people, outsmart other people, defame other people if necessary, just get up there.  But this is all through society.  Those who start to wake up today, you'll find this, especially on the fringe group, there's always an element of the ultra-paranoid types, almost schizoid types, they will jump immediately into believing it's something from beyond that's in control of the world, because they can't believe, because they think they're so smart, that they've been so hoodwinked so long by human beings.  But that's precisely what it is.  It's a part of nature that we all have, to an extent, some form or another, that's been allowed to manifest over the good side of us.  And remember, at the top, they don't believe in good and evil.  I watched a documentary with a camera crew from Canada that went into a party in Hollywood, where the big sci-fi writers were there, Spielberg and all these guys, and they asked the same question to all these horror and sci-fi writers, do you believe in good and evil.  And every one gave the same answer as Spielberg did.  He says, there's no such thing as good and evil.  He said, it's a matter of human judgment on the course of events as to what benefited what.  And you see, that was a cabalistic answer he gave, because they're all into the Cabala.  They don't believe that there is such a thing as good and evil.  But it's quite interesting, it's almost as though, when we look at the whole society at the top, and the warmongers that are there, we're actually seeing manifested evil in these people.  It does exist alright, and we know what it does.  It's a destructive thing.  It's a destroyer.  And we're living through this system, right now, with these guys in charge.


Henrik: Yeah, exactly.  And you know, even going back to the idea of, if this is something from beyond, if we consider what a human being is and if we ponder upon what consciousness itself is and the soul and the will of a person, I mean, that in itself is very mysterious in that sense.  It's a mystical element to it.  And I at least think that that is in itself something that is from beyond, you know.


Alan: It is.  It is in a sense, in that, if you look even in the Old Testament for the West, they gave us the Christian and the Old Testament from Judaism, but they eradicated all the previous stuff basically, but even in there they have the Jesus figure being accused of bringing in a new law, and wasn't Moses good enough.  And his answer was, that was given because you were base at that time, you were a base people, primitive people.  And that's what it meant.  In other words, we go through these phases in life, these cycles of society, where people are either very base and aggressive, and competitive, and jealous, and envious and all those things, and the whole message, the antidote was to be completely different, where you gave out to other people, rather than expect it all to be taken in by you.  So, you see, these things are innate within humans, and we have the decisions within ourselves as to the path that we take.  In fact, we're the only creature on the planet that has that ability to choose.  Other creatures follow their instincts.  And yet, when people, actual human beings start following nothing but instinct, you end up with an animalistic culture and a destructive culture.  When the other side is manifested, great changes can be made.


Henrik: Yeah, exactly.  I mean we are, in the end, we don't know what the purpose in that sense of humanity is, or where we're going.  We can of course have philosophies about it and so forth, philosophize about it, but you know, considering what you said there, that's very interesting, that we're going through these different phases.  And I myself think that we are actually, how should I put it, we are being, well, maybe not guided, that's the wrong word, but, well in a form guided, but we are going through these different phases and this is a way for us to actually figure out what we are ourselves, what we are doing here, where we're going, and what the purpose of everything is.  This is like a big, well it is like a test, or whatever you want to call it in that sense.  And at the end of the day, I see no danger in all of this that is going on, in all the horrible stuff that is happening on the world and so forth.  At the end of the day, when you know, considering what is going on, and the miracle of life and all this, I'm not that emotionally taken away by all the bad stuff that is happening on this planet.  That is something that I keep very close to my consciousness all the time, and trying to do the best in order to change the world and all of this and all of that, but in the end, at least, I return to the idea that this is something more.  This is a very spiritual journey and we are going through different epochs at different times.  If we are returning, return to this planet again and again, who knows, but that's how things are, and that's how I look at it, at least, so.


Alan: Well, even an individual journey in the one lifetime is supposed to take you from complete beginnings, with all of the possibilities that you could possibly do, not be stunted along the way, but yeah, make mistakes too, but learn from them.  And as I say, that was the whole tradition of elders in the past times.  Elders were highly respected and that's why they destroyed the generations and the communication between the generations, because elders had wisdom that they accumulated through their lives.  They'd made all the mistakes.  And they got over them.  And they did manage to, they would advise the young as to the pitfalls and what to avoid.  Today though, we have such an immature society that they don't know.  They don't know anything of wisdom to pass on to the youth.  They've been producers and consumers their whole lives, and they're buying and shopping until the bitter end, looking for material things to substitute for that big black hole inside them, that sucks everything in.  They're not replacing it with the proper things, which as you say is almost a spiritual food that they used to call it in ancient times. 


Henrik: Yeah, yeah that's right.  Hey, listen Alan, I think that this is a good time to round things off for this time.  I want to kind of leave on a positive note, and again, returning back to the idea, to the thing that we talked about earlier, the protests at this SPP summit in Canada, and just incredible to show you what you can do with a DV camera or a cell phone camera these days and an internet connection. Just upload some footage, and helping expose.  I mean, it's very simply done.  It's awesome that this thing came out, and I think that that is a very positive note in order to kind of see through the agenda and beginning to get smart.  It's one level up at least if I can say it like that.


Alan: It's one level up, and it's also something to remember, because this will be used in every future demonstration, same techniques.


Henrik: Exactly, so keep an eye on that everybody.  Yeah, and again, I want to mention, again, Alan's website, of course,  Take a look at Reality Check part I.  It's up there for free that you can stream.  Alan has available Reality Check part II, a lot of CDs and stuff.  Alan tell us about your website.  Also mention your international one again.


Alan: Yes.  There's and there's also, where they can get transcripts in other languages for Europe and download them for free, of the talks I've given in the past. 


Henrik: Excellent.  Thank you for a great discussion, Alan.  I'm looking forward to speaking to you again next time.  Until then, thank you for coming on.


Alan: It's a pleasure.


Alan's Materials Available for Purchase and Ordering Information:


"Cutting Through"
  Volumes 1, 2, 3


"Waiting for the Miracle....."
Also available in Spanish or Portuguese translation: "Esperando el Milagro....." (Español) & "Esperando um Milagre....." (Português)


Ancient Religions and History MP3 CDs:
Part 1 (1998) and Part 2 (1998-2000)


Blurbs and 'Cutting Through the Matrix' Shows on MP3 CDs (Up to 50 Hours per Disc)


"Reality Check Part 1"   &   "Reality Check Part 2 - Wisdom, Esoterica and ...TIME"