September 16, 2006

(3 Hours)


Dialogue Copyrighted Alan Watt – September 16, 2006 (Exempting Music and Literary Quotes)








Effie:  What would you like to talk about?


Alan:  Just talk about when, say, you were young, the difference starting off when you were young.


Effie:  Well, I was thinking about that. You could approach it from different angles and one I was thinking like I said that the thing that I always could get more concise out of it is the continuity not hearing one story, reading one subject but I was thinking about—let's see. I forgot the word.  Enticement. In 75 years, you went from government enticement to government slavery and I saw some of it. You didn't have to – I don't have to make a story, nor do I have to dramatize it. It's right there and it all started – well, it didn't – rain don't come in the middle of a sunshiny day and so it started the time when my grandfather around the 18th Century when he had to go out and leave his spring crop and then he had to go out and work at his old job as a tugboat captain to get hard money to pay taxes. That was the beginning and luckily my grandmother was strong enough and willing enough to finish the plowing.


Alan:   It was on the Mississippi?


Effie:   No. They lived about 50 miles from here and they had bought a place and they were independent, really independent, and so that was the first crack of breeching in taxes.


Alan:  When do you think that happened?


Effie:  Well, I know the time and everything, it had to be around the last of the 18th Century because evidently they had moved there and the children were small, because they had as everybody else they had a large family and boys. It had to be and I would say about 30 or 40 miles from where I am right now. And then my dad had to pay a poll tax before he could vote.


Alan:  A poll tax.


Effie:  How would you call it? The law was moving in. No substitute for the law to get things moving and so then about that time – about my time was when they pulled off the Big Depression and the great what would you call him, the Pied Piper, Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt. I mean Roosevelt.


Alan:  A miracle man, hey?


Effie:  Yes, the Pied Piper and that's when it really was uncertain. They had started that transition from independent country living to renting a home and working in the city and so they was caught with their britches down so to speak and then you saw how things happened. He started buying them with their own money.


Alan:  Their own money, yes. First they knock the banks down and then they come in with the solutions.


Effie:  One of those coincidences that all the – they wasn't so bold yet to take all the state rights away, but they connived around where they got all the governors, every governor. They had to be complete to permit them to close the banks. He didn't have that power and he didn't have the nerve to do it but he had compliance.


Alan:   Yes, and it's pretty obvious, too, to anybody that's studied history, that he just didn't move in and make up the plan as he was going along. It was a massive, multifaceted plan, an agenda, which suddenly went into motion.


Effie:  Well, I've read and I can see he couldn't have even conceived of all those plans in the first hundred days and it's said that between the time that he was elected till he was declared president, he stayed at the Hudson Valley Home and there was cars coming and going and it was the busiest place you ever did see, so you can imagine what went on with the completion of the plans; and then like I said, taking the gold away from the people.


Alan:  Yes. Making a law.


Effie:  Yes, and that was it and from then on the people were willing and mesmerized. I don't what other way you could say it. But anyway, one thing I would like to say that impressed me a lot when the first year or two I went to school we walked – my older sister and I had to walk about a mile and a half or two miles to school. We had to wade and we had to take our shoes off to wade the creek and there was another one if the water was high, but anyway you can imagine how – and you know I can't understand it, Alan. My mother told me that in the 1920's it turned cold and it stayed cold. I'm not talking about cold in the north. I'm talking about southern cold. It stayed cold she said all winter and so it was cold. I mean that bitter damp cold wind and so we had a place we met the school bus and it was just a graded up road. It was dirt road, just graded up. You know what I mean and there was this colored man. He invited us into his house to warm our feet and warm ourselves and he was thoughtful enough to watch for the school bus so we could stay in there and you know I thought of him later. He had been cold so he knew how you felt and you were fellow human beings. Well, I was about 15 years old when I went to the first Pathe movie news and I saw this Pied Piper in person on this news and he was laid back in his big touring car and his Panama hat cocked to the jannie – because he was the happy Morgan you know and with a big cigarette holder and a cigarette cocked up in his mouth and you know what struck me? That man would never know how it felt to be hungry or cold or scared.


Alan:  That's right. Or care, as long as it was someone else.


Effie:  That was the important thing. But then, like I said, they started – he told them to spend themselves into prosperity.


Alan:  That's right. Put yourself into debt and into prosperity. Double speak, yes.


Effie:  You see part of the problem was overproduction of farm products and under priced market. That was one of the leading things that had the country people dissatisfied and the more they produced the cheaper their products got and the higher the manufacturing. They were pouring out milk and Roosevelt sent barges of bacon and ham down the Mississippi River and dumped in the ocean, when some people in the south and myself included, maybe it would be six months before you even tasted a piece of meat.


Alan:  Yes, just to keep the prices up.


Effie:  Yes, and then along with the Pathe News, I saw this mount of potatoes about two stories higher or bigger, a mountain. They had poured coal oil on it so you couldn't eat it. And what I could never understand why people ever, was it desperation, ignorance or what, that made them follow that creep. I don't know.


Alan:  It's the same con game with the European Union because under the Union all foodstuffs that are traded are put into what they call the mountain, like a butter mountain or sugar mountain or whatever else, and they dump the excess at sea to keep the prices up. That's an old trick that's still being used. Isn't that something?


Effie:  And the thing that I couldn't understand when I was a child was few people that had a car later on in '35 or '36. No, it was later than that, but somewhere along in there. They put a $3.00 tax on all cars, license. It was the beginning and then at that time when your parents decided that it was necessary or you were old enough they taught you to drive. Well, you were as sinless as a little baby but the next day you found out there was a law that said YOU HAD TO HAVE A DRIVER'S LICENSE. Or I guess you were breaking the law and it wasn't the license that was given to you. YOU HAD TO PAY FOR IT. And not only it wasn't but one license, it was subject to a certain time limit and every time you renewed it, it went up, but YOU NEVER DID GET THE TITLE TO THAT CAR EVEN AFTER YOU PAID FOR IT.  In Baton Rouge you got a certificate. I couldn't but figure out why didn't they have the certificate and you had the title. And it made you wonder a little further when they decided that maybe you should pay for insurance to protect that car. Protect it for who, I don't know. You can imagine yourself.


Alan:  I think the insurance was voluntary to start with.


Effie:  It wasn't here.


Alan:  In Canada I think it was. That's how them in.


Effie:  Oh, I don't mean that somebody might have – a rare person that had money, but this land was poor and a hard dollar was something and I remember one time and I don't think a beautiful red potato is a thing of beauty. I mean perfect potatoes and my father saying we couldn't even sell a sack of potatoes of hundreds of pounds for a dollar.


Alan:  Really.


Effie:  And only hard money that you had and that's what I mean, hard money that was negotiable. Not bartering. You either sold eggs to the grocery man to get a little something. Maybe some flour or salt or something like that and you could cut wood. A cord of wood was $3.00 split and sit there. They did come and pick it up and that was about the only money that you had and then of course they started with the PWA and when I think of FEMA with their with their trailers reminds me of the impactability the government hadn't learned in 75 years anything; and if you wanted and you went with your hat in your hand and humbled yourself enough, you could get a royal toilet. Oh, it was the latest style and it was made of new lumber instead of that lumber being given to you to maybe prop up your old shack with. No. It had to be built and also it had a batten so that the cracks later on would be sure and it was four-square and six-feet deep and I tell you it even had a vent, not a vent of metal but of one by fours and it had a nice little cap on top of it. And you couldn't get it in a one-seater. You had to get it in a two-seater and there was very few people that would go get something like that. Of course they wasn't going to beg or feel like they was--


Alan:  Something for nothing.


Effie:  Yes, and not only that. That's what they made you feel like and so there wasn't too many and there was really a sense of wonder. I'll tell you, can you imagine one of those perennial palaces besides an old rundown shack?


Alan:  That's right. That sounds the sort of thing they'd do.


Effie:  That's bureaucrats for you.


Alan:  Well, toilets are very important to bureaucrats. Toilets are very important to them you see.


Effie:  Oh yes, I know. I found that out later. Anyway, and that was something that I couldn't understand. Two things that puzzled me. How that if you paid money and got a license you wasn't outside the law and then the idea of different things they made you do and you know one of them –  I hope I'm not talking too much--


Alan:  On you go.


Effie:  You can always erase it out or something, but anyway there was this fellow that dearly wanted education and you know it was the most degrading thing what they did. They did have a few road machines. They took that out and they put you to work with a pick and a shovel.


Alan:  What was it they called that? That make-work project?


Effie:  That was PWA. Then they had one called the WPA and like I said they had so many alphabet and they had them coming at you till sometimes that's all you heard was alphabet. The CCC, the AAA, the NRA, and nobody, even a genius couldn't have thought all that stuff up in that little time.


Alan:  That's right. Isn't it so coincidental that FDR's wife was off visiting the Soviets because she admired their system so much because in the Soviet system they never had anybody unemployed because you couldn't eat if you were unemployed, so technically everybody was employed, even if it was all just make-work projects. Here's FDR doing the same thing on the other side of the world, exact same thing, making a peoples army, a workers army, and giving them military uniforms to get them all used to wearing it all and being in the military style in time for World War II coming up.


Effie:  Sure, the CC's boys. Civilian Conservation Corps. They went out instead of building something they went out in the national forest and built camps and roads leading nowhere. Typical bureaucracy.


Alan:  Roads going nowhere.


Effie:  They did give them a little money. I think – I don't even know what it was, but they could keep about a third of it for their personal and the rest of it was sent home, which was a God-send, and that was in those times. Anyway, they did do one thing I don't know about accident. All the country folks knew how to can, but they had an economic place and the reason the women folks went there was because if you went there with products, produce, you could – they would give you and process a jar of food for you, but you had to give them so much a percentage, but you did have a right to the jars and we had those jars for many a year.


Alan:  Was that a local community center type thing?


Effie:  That was places like we went to the Parrish seat, but they built canning centers and instructors there. That was the only thing that was sensible. Also, the money as usual was given to the cities and where we lived was not far and we were living on my grandmother's place. At the time the money was given to the lawyers and the merchants and the county seats.


Alan:  Always, yes.


Effie:  And they distributed it and so the only thing that I ever heard them talk about, the grown folks, was you've got a few rotten eggs and maybe some meat that my dad couldn't eat.


Alan:  That's the charity trickle down theory. At the top it clanks and jingles. At the bottom you hear this dull scraping sound. That's all that's left after the big boys have pocketed it.


Effie:  They did have relief stations and my brother went there one time and we lived in a little rolling hill and he went to see if he could get a sack of flour. One of the greatest events of my life after watching all day, I saw him coming across the top of the hill with a sack of flour on his back. That was real imperative. I guarantee it was the difference between maybe having a biscuit or two or homemade bread or eating cornbread. So it made a lot of difference and like I said you didn't actually ever starve but you sure never was over full, I guarantee you, and if we hadn't of been fortunate enough to come back to the country and live with my grandmother – well, in fact there was my uncle and his wife, my grandmother and my dad and three children, my brother he slept out in the barn and so my aunt helped us a little until you got a crop started. That was before they started giving you a little something if you went down there with your hat in your hand and begged all day. I never could understand how you manage to make people feel so ashamed for something that they wasn't at fault.


Alan:  You know that's the sad part about human nature.


Effie:  Yes, that's the sad part. All the depression years and it wasn't us. It was all the people. I saw shame and bewilderment in the people's faces.


Alan:  Because they didn’t understand any of it. They had no say in the money situation, who handled it at the top, the country's finances, all that bogus nonsense of magic acts that they do at the very top and that was the thing. You just pull the rug out and you leave them all bewildered wondering what they can do to get it back on track you know.


Effie:  You see, as long as you were on the farm you were independent, but the minute you go to town with wages that couldn't hardly make ends meet, well, the minute you quit paying nobody had a home. When you didn't have rent, that was it. Out you went and I've often thought what happened to the people that didn't have family to come home to and had to stay in the city. Well, I know a little glimpse of it was my older sister went to New Orleans – was fortunate enough that her boss was a manager of a dime store down there and she helped with the children and she said that at night there would be people with well-to-do – I mean middle class people with good clothes on. They were ashamed and they'd wait until after dark and they would come and go through the garbage cans. That's how they lived out there.


Alan:  I guess that's what they mean about getting America back. I keep asking them what time period they want to get back into because America was either at war with somebody or else they were going through a depression.


Effie:  That's right.


Alan:  Or they were having a civil war even, I mean it's so amazing. You think they'd catch on eventually that there's a bunch at the top there just manipulating everybody. And didn't you mention, too, all the guys that road the rails back then?


Effie:  Oh yes, because we lived, as a typical expression, you lived on the wrong side of the track. In fact we lived there because finally my dad being an engineer and a brakeman – he was a brakeman at the time so he got a job in about '36 or something like that so we lived in this company house that we fixed up and so we seen the people. They still, with all the money that Roosevelt had thrown away, it still wasn't doing them any good. It wasn't getting down to the people and so these people, well, they just did the only thing they could do and they were looking for work and they were moving and the only way they could move was with their family and so they were moving in boxcars and gondolas. Those are those half cars like they carry coal in. Well anyway, one evening it was cold and rainy and I guarantee you that is miserable weather. Daddy came in and he asked mom and he says there's a family over there and it was going on tonight and the train was being moved out in a little while and they'd be traveling like that all night in the open. He says is there anything that we can maybe give to them? Mama looked around and she had an old quilt and that's an older quilt and she says that's all we have, and I don't know, they might have given them a little food or vegetables, I don't know, but I do remember her saying that's all we have is the quilt to spare and she says well maybe that will help the children. Growing up like that sort of gives you a strength. It's not for the sissies. You've got to survive. But anyway, I can remember right there at that place we didn't have anything to eat. Somehow somebody had managed to raise some potatoes and they were rotten and the onions were rotten and we were trying to eat them up before they all rotted on us. Another time we went out to the country and like I said at that time people had human feelings and they had a field of shell beans. So the man told daddy, he says, I don't need them. I can't use them. He said if you want them you can pick them, you can have them. So we came – they picked them and I was too young for that but we spent three days shelling beans – same size as red beans. Something like that. You can imagine how many beans you shell to fill 50 quarts and it took three days. My mother, she spent the time processing it three at a time on top of a wood stove in the middle of summer. So this wasn't the land of the rich. I mean America wasn't rich.


Alan:  Well, it was concentrated in certain places.


Effie:  Except like that. But anyway, it went on like that and I guess by natural process, people getting up and maybe having to trade a little something to say they were managing a little better and then Roosevelt decided that he wasn't doing any good that way, so he decided he would get us in a war. So he worked at that.


Alan:  Yes, he did a lot of stuff to block the Japanese off from expanding, knowing they were pushing them towards it.


Effie:  And you know that's another little thing that took me a long time to understand. We had all these boys running the day after or the same day December 7th to enlist. Especially the CC boys. In fact they had old First World War uniforms. Isn't that a coincidence?


Alan:  Yes, and also sort of brought up in work camps like the military.


Effie:  In fact, Eisenhower and Marshall were there to – it was sort along informal but formal military, but anyway, what I could never figure out is if everybody was going to go fight the Japanese. Well, how did they all end up in Europe? So there was a lot of things if you think about and connect and keep in mind you can see, and it went from there. Before I put this in, for what it's worth, before the days of Martin Luther King all the people in the south was called colored people and they were colored. They were colored from cream color – I mean milk chocolate to dark chocolate and the reason they were was because of philandering white men. The black people didn’t breed themselves up lighter and also the white women at that time they'd of killed you. It was the white men and it always distressed me that right down here in the same town I'm living in now that a black man had to step off the sidewalk when the white people went by and maybe that same black man – or I'm getting so I'm brainwashed, I call them colored people because that's what they are and that's not a derogatory term. It's a descriptive term as far as at that time that's what the white people said that because people like me was called poor white trash. We were the last thing and the only difference between the colored man and me was that my skin was white, but as far as socially, neither one of us was any better than the other.


Alan:  Yes, and they try to pretend there's no class distinction in the United States. Really?


Effie:  Anyway, you know I think of what you said one time that we come here with a survival instinct and it's soon taken out of us when you’re a child.  I can remember if my father took off his hat and started saying yes sir and no sir and Mr. So-and-So, well, it was time for me to scat and he was talking to that man, the big man, the boss man, and so he had to step around light too, and that puzzled me for a long time why you had to do that. You didn't look that man in the eye. You went by him with your eyes cast down. In fact as a child my first thing was to escape. I knew that I better not be around there. That's America that we own. It's our America. We want it back.


Alan:  Like you mean the good old days, eh?


Effie:  One more subject that I might mention that affected me when we lived in the place across the track. Well, there was a little trade in cross towers and a green cross tower is way well over 100 pounds and as a child I observed these colored men were hauling these up on their shoulders and I think the good Lord made a mistake when he didn't put more flesh around your shoulder and your shin bone, but anyway, all day long they'd go up an incline and I don't ever remember seeing them drink water or have a lunch break and the boss man, Mr. Maconie, he was walking to and fro with a big pistol on his hip. Need I say more and some of the men they'd put a sack across their shoulder to help them and so a long time and then it just happened when I was getting a little older. I saw Mr. Maconie in the paper. He was going to give a speech to his fellow Kiwanis members with his monkey suit on and I thought back of Mr. Maconie and what he did where I saw him. Gives you that warm cuddly feeling you love everybody.


Alan:  That's right. He was trying to teach everybody the work ethic, right? Yes, I know.


Effie:  That's what I say, but later on when I started studying about it and you had communism in Russia. You had Nazism in Germany. You had Fascism in Italy and I don't understand. Maybe I never got the correct answer to it. The definition of Fascism as I understood from what Mussolini said was that they controlled the corporations but they didn't take them over. They run them. They're under control.


Alan:  And they stopped the unions and the people from forming unions to negotiate. That's right.


Effie:  In the same time we had welfarism here and England socialism and I can't understand when I hear people talk about Fascism--


Alan:  It's public-private partnerships they call it now.


Effie:  They mix it up with Nazism but it wasn't and we have a form here but it's a – I was just reading a book that I had read one time before and it’s very interesting now that I look through it again I see things. The name of it is "War and Central Planning and Corporations." So you see we don't control the corporations and the bankers. They control the government as well as you well know.


Alan:  That's right.


Effie:  And it's getting more controlled – I mean they're getting more open with it.


Alan:  Yes, it's an old formula. There's nothing new. Even Franklin said it when they asked them what kind of government they were given, like they had any say in it, the people outside the meeting hall, where all these guys got together to make the Constitution and he says "it's a Republic if you can keep it" he said.


Effie:  Yes, I thought about that you said that. I reviewed it. Was that one of their little jokes?


Alan:  Oh of course it was. Yes, the Illuminati are allowed to speak out of both sides of their mouth you see and they can get a lot of truth out there. It doesn't mean that they're against what they just said, because the oldest trick in the book from the days of the ancient Caesars and Rome was to create terrorism within society by claiming there were terrorists within society and then they had to turn out all the armies on the people to keep you safe. This is the oldest dodge in the book, the oldest thing in the book.


Effie:  You know, talking about enticement and entanglement, I can remember when they came out with social security and I was fortunate enough my mother strained a little and I was taking a citizenship course in high school and we got a little supplement in the paper once a month or something, and it was a whole nickel. That nickel was the same as $100 now. Anyway, it was big news, they would give news about headline stuff and go into detail a little about it and it said it was skimming fund. Well, the only trouble is and then they mentioned something about a skimming. Well, they never did. It never did sink. It was skimmed off before it sunk and then the politicians went ahead the first thing they did to ensure their continuity was they put injured people on it and that was bad enough. They never did put it in a fund to draw anything. It just went like the rest in the general fund and then on top of it they turned around and they put dependent children on it; and I can assure you, my father, like I said, he was only getting – I mean his social security at that time was maybe a dollar or two to be turned in 30 years and that was another thing in that paper emphasized. Every time Roosevelt put up one of these hot-shot sure things and there was some old maybe reasonable Supreme Court members, they called it the insurance and they turned it down. Well, he was beside himself and what he was going to do with them and it's always been a political toy that they can yoyo with the members and then he made fun of them, called them the old horse and buggy, they should retire, and finally he in time and there was a couple retired and a couple that died, so he went ahead and put his men right in there and so that's how they passed all those insurance deals because it was never ever, even if they were to put it the fund, it could never take, especially the social security, could not take care of itself. Because I can remember my father after all those – well, about 40 years before he tapped in on it. He hadn't actually put enough money in there to draw on it a year. Then he turned around and later on remarried and put children on there and so it was bound to be choked to death. All those insurance policies were never meant to work because it was just another slick way of getting money.


Alan:  The bankers like debt, you see, so the countries borrow it and it keeps the bankers on top, meaning they can be sure that their sons and grandsons and great grandsons are still in charge of the banks way down the road because the nations are always kept in such debt; so they love socialism for that purpose. That's the reason for it, but it's amazing that when World War II came along, suddenly they've got all this money to create this massive army and equipment and so on, and no lack of food then. It's just amazing.


Effie:  But the thing was and I haven't been able to verify this, but circumstantial evidence. It says in the Constitution, "Congress shall have the power to create money and set the value thereof," but we have never but one time acted on that and the Congress offered Roosevelt $300 million; he would not use that money. He went and borrowed money from the international bankers


Alan:  That's because he was related to them. He was related to the Schaffs in Holland and Germany, the bankers.


Effie:  Anyway, you know that I've been thinking about that for a while. I've been thinking about the word "poor." How could you be poor in a land of plenty?


Alan:  Yes, exactly, and how can you go from being poor if that was the case and suddenly have all the war materials, all the money in the world, all the food getting churned out for the war. I mean just overnight. How could that happen?


Effie:  Well, I'll tell you what they told us. We were such a marvelous--


Alan:  Special people, eh?


Effie:  …people that we could really get behind that and miraculously deliver all these things. Of course I have read where Ford and the rest of them and which anybody tells you that it takes quite a while to retool and expenses, but they had that stuff ready to go.


Alan:  We know that Winston Churchill had even before he was Prime Minister in Britain already was in charge of secret war and munitions supplies and they were already churning out aircraft in preparation for the coming war; and of course they already had this "special relationship" that Maggie Thatcher kept talking about when she was in between the U.S. and Britain, so they're both working on it. Just like today with this thing in the Middle East, Tony Blair's the one man band for this ongoing war because he's in on the know. It's an agenda with the U.S. and Britain leading the charge. Same thing back in World War II.


Effie:  Well, I'll tell you another miracle they had. This super-nation that come over there to bomb them out with their valiant little royal air force they were able to subdue them and I have read there was secret places in England where the plane motors were made and like you said, made of--


Alan:  Rolls Royce made the ones that went into the Japanese fighters.


Effie:  And also, how did those engines get in the planes of the Japanese jets zero?


Alan:  It's a miracle. Yes, it's one of these life's mysteries. You know during the whole depression and you can find this in all the history books too, and school books at the time. School books are fascinating because they put all of this stuff in it that were written at the time. Railroads were just churning the scrap metal all through Canada and the U.S. during the Depression and it was going to ports and being exported to Japan to build up their war machine for their Navy et cetera.


Effie:  It was a nation without any natural resources.


Alan:  That's right.


Effie:  I can tell you personally that the first money I ever made was these gondolas would come into the gravel pits and we would have to clean them out to put the gravel and sand in and so us children would walk along and pick up little pieces of metal and we collected it and we sold it and it was going to Japan.


Alan:  That's right. They built it up and then of course if you look at certain books they'll tell you that Bernard Baruch and a whole bunch of bankers in the U.S. had financed the build up of Japan into the modern age, including all of their military, on condition that they would first fight with Russia. That was early on before it became Soviet to get them going – to get the revolution going and then to go into China. It was part of the deal.


Effie:  And you know, I had read about it but I bet the average American didn't understand when Khrushchev told them, "we have never invaded your country, but you invaded ours," in the first world war.


Alan:  First world war, yes.


Effie:  But that's when I said if you just sort of look at – what would you call it, still pictures. Like I said, that's why I said it's important to go from enticement to enslavement. You have to follow that continuity and how they moved in and also, like I said, here come Roosevelt – I mean Johnson and all of them did their part and honestly, Alan, the races down here were getting – you know things were picked up. Well, it's like I would like to tell somebody, Jessie Jackson, which would be wasted. Would a white man or a white man was offered the job first, do you think that when he didn't even know where his next meal was hardly coming from that he would turn around and give that job to a black man, a colored man? Plus the boss wouldn't have hired him in the first place. But that was it. There wasn't much difference between the two of them. So you can't expect nobody to give you something and do without themselves. There just wasn't enough and the reason when you come down to it, I've been thinking about it and I wanted to ask you, the whole reason why you are poor in rich place is because there is not enough money. You have to have barter and you don't sell or trade a sack of potatoes to your fellow man. You've got to have that ingredient. You've got to have that money and if you don't have that money, it don't move.


Alan:  The bankers always create the depressions by simply withdrawing the money from circulation and that's the bottom line. This is the oldest dodge for thousands of years.


Effie:  Well, you could say in a way, would you say that money was the first monopoly?


Alan:  It was the first con trick. If we'd never fallen for it. See, around the money, once you get money established, then all the rules, regulations, laws your whole culture changes to adapt to the money. Therefore, you end up with a completely new culture, way of living, et cetera, so when they pull the money back out of existence you're helpless without it. It's a beautiful trick.


Effie:  Well, it's like I was telling my nephew today. I said it's credit and I said credit is like smoke. I said you see it and then you don't see it. I said you can't get your hand on it. It can disappear so quickly, it's elusive, but it's there, and that's what they have the power to do—withdraw the credit.


Alan:  That's right. That's a fact as well. I mean the reason that the U.S. they decided to get ahead a little bit more after World War II was to make credit freely available. You could not get it in Europe until about the 70's. You couldn't get a credit card unless you had collateral to balance it against, real estate or something, and now they just throw cards at you because they want everybody in debt. The money is a great trick. Beautiful. It's like Napoleon said, "the hand above controls the hand below. The one that gives is the one that's the boss that drops the coin down below." And that's it. If you go into debt you become a slave and the old rule book is the Old Testament. It's all written in there.


Effie:  In a way if you look at it, it is a necessary evil because you can't strictly barter.


Alan:  It would depend on what kind of society you wanted.


Effie: Well, where would you be?


Alan:  You would be classed as what they call 'primitive'; and to me, the primitive organization is the natural organization.


Effie:  Yes, but at the same time you know a person can get pretty tired of eating potatoes and you can't trade if that's all that your neighbor has. But like I said, it's according to how far you want to go. I mean what you want.


Alan:  It's your purpose of life, your meaning of life; people think today's society is natural. They don't realize there's nothing in it that's natural. Even what they think about isn't even natural. It's all given to them. Personally, I'd rather be somewhere in the Amazon and have a purpose for living and I wouldn't need a psychiatrist. I wouldn't need medications. You wouldn't need therapists. You wouldn't need doctors. They don't know what high blood pressure is there. Life has meaning and purpose and that's what it's all about. Money is key – it's the rot.


Effie:  Let's say you brought money into this equation, it would be so dangerous you couldn't control it. The advantage that you would get out of money would be – you'd be better off if you stayed where you were.


Alan:  They did a little documentary and it was shown on the Public Broadcasting Station not long ago, where an anthropologist was studying some of these supposed "arrested civilizations" as they like to call them. They like to put them all down by the terms they use; meaning that they didn't care about science or anything else and lived in the jungles in the Amazon. Towards the end he thought he'd leave them a present or given them a present and he had watched what they did when they chopped down trees, they used a sort of flint type of axe which they made themselves, and he dropped a whole bunch of modern axes there. When he came back the following year, he found they were still using the stone axes and there was a pile of this stuff that he'd left just heaped up in a pile; and when he asked them why they weren't using the modern axes, he says, because they're not as good as the ones they make themselves and if they make them themselves the children can learn how to make them themselves. Whereas if they take his axes, they won't be able to make them, they'd be dependent. And that's a primitive society? They knew darn well.


Effie:  Well, this is a personal story I say with great sacrifice. I bought this place and a dairy. I could see where to get ahead I had to borrow money and I never could borrow enough to do me any good. I could see down the road where I would be forever – that's all I would be doing, going from one loan to another. Also the government stepped in and they could tell you whether your milk was fit to be sold or not and then the ridiculous rules that they had and they made you do things that you wasn't financially able to do and they didn't need being done, but the milk inspector was your master. So I decided one day that especially they told me that I had to have an automatic milk and I had to have a bulk tank, but I didn't have enough milk to put in the bottom of the bucket and it would cost me $50,000. In '59, that was the same as $100,000 now or more.


Alan:  Well, with easy terms though you could be starting to pay it off by now.


Effie:  Well, I couldn't even get the loan because I didn't have enough security. But I was looking at it and I says you know what? If I could, I said I would be forever working and if I got big enough then I would have to have help and then I would have them to bother with and then the inspectors must probably think of something else to add to it.


(HOUR 2)


I think of what you said one time about reality, facing reality. The object is that plan will never work unless they can get everybody in the city.


Alan:  I know.


Effie:  And I can see it more all the time.


Alan:  Not independent but interdependent. Interdependence means you're totally dependent on the system itself.


Effie: And they are.


Alan:  It's completely artificial and that was the problem in ancient times with Greece and Rome. It wasn't just the fact that it all became effeminate and all the rest of it. It was also to do with the fact that the cities lived on the taxation of the rest of the rural areas. In the rural areas it wasn't just Visigoths and all of that which attacked Rome, it was also the rural peoples' uprisings at the same time because they'd had enough of being taxed into the ground to keep the bunch in the city in a kind of life of luxury they were accustomed to. This a thing that's gone on--


Effie:  Same old story.


Alan:  The old story, repetitive, and it's the same thing now where everybody wants to be in the main cities where all the action is as they say and make piles of bucks and it's a sort of pariah type system and a shark type system from the top right down, where everybody's eating the guy below him to keep above everybody else and there's no compassion there. If you don't have the money, you're out on the street. It's an unnatural system of living but they need the taxation from all the other counties et cetera to keep them in that kind of standard because they keep having new ways to spend money and new projects they want to do ongoing; and who's going to pay for it? Well, the taxpayer pays for it and it gets to the stage where the taxpayer goes under, always does. There's a certain limit that you can reach before you're taxed into the ground.


Effie:  Even today, I would say that my nephew is no better off in his way than my dad was when I was growing up and the only thing that he has that keeps him going is that credit card. Of course I told him, I said you work five days a week. I said the government takes 60% of that. They leave you 40% for board, room and shelter and then I said if you want anything on the two days you're off they let you loose you have to have a credit card. And then it's time for you to go back to work on Monday morning. You're free to go just as far as you can but you've got to be back Monday morning. And then I said people live and die and they don't know what life's all about. I said is that all your life is going to be? I said working 45 years, five days a week. I said I was free – I saw the last of the free days and I said I managed to work if I wanted. I said for 35 years I worked six months of the year, but I said I lived mighty close but then I knew how. I knew the difference between wants and needs and I said I never was in debt in my life and I never intend to be. I said you would be dead in the water without that and I said then they attach even in the country they reach out and attach life supports to you. I said you pay a garbage bill. You pay a sewer bill. You pay a light bill, I mean a water bill. I said then you can hardly do without lights and telephone. Then I said that's all attached to you by law. And then I said then if you want anything else you go and attach the free bee table and other things. I said and that's another thing. I said you have to have a car. There was a time – Alan, today even on the road, secondary road, there was a time even on Canal Street in New Orleans you had stop lights for pedestrians. You could go across, stop the traffic and go across the street. Now, even to go in the small town where I live you need a car to protect you to get across the street.


Alan:  It's called progress.


Effie:  Oh yes.


Alan:  Did you know all the Arabs apparently are jealous? They hate America for all this progress. According to Bush anyway, they just hate it. I guess they want cars to run all over the desert as well.


Effie: Well, you know what I told someone today? I said you know what? Because he says that doesn't make it so and it doesn't make it not so. But I said if you've got any judgment you split the difference and if you've got a thinking brain you're not dead.


Alan:  Yes, I know.


Effie:  I know they're lying, Alan. I've heard them lie because I've lived through it so I know.


Alan:  It's the same lies too. Same techniques.


Effie:  And they don't care.


Alan:  I know.


Effie:  In other words, when I was growing up it was a pleasant anticipation waiting for some enjoyment. Now it's instant gratification. I want it and I want it right now. I don't care what it costs or what it does to anybody else, I want it right now.


Alan:  Yes, that's exactly how it is.


Effie:  Well, I'll tell you, even with all my deprivations and they strengthened me. They didn't kill me and I guarantee you one thing. Up to the '50's I could go to this little town here and leave or put stuff in the back of the truck and it would be there when I got back. During the Depression no matter how bad it was, nobody come in your house. Nobody stole anything. They say that children were depressed – yes, you were whipped. You wasn't spanked. You were whipped and I've had welts on me three days but they'd get your attention. And I was always warned in advance, don't do that, and so it didn't break my spirit and my generation. Now, let them do what they want, and so you see what you have.


Alan:  Yes, it's progress.


Effie:  That's right.


Alan:  Progress, yes. We're on the cutting edge of progress.


Effie:  We used to have the Rush Limbaugh of his day. His name was called Will Rogers and he sort of made fun and joked about a lot of things. He says this country is going to the poor house in a car and I said well we're progressing. Now we're still going to the poor house or in it with three cars, so we're progressing.


Alan:  None of which you really own.


Effie:  All by the magic of your magic credit card.


Alan:  They call them—the guys that work for the big financial institutions which own these credit systems—they call the credit card the "mousetrap." That's what they say, "We have to build a better mousetrap," so we're the mice. "Don't you want this? You can have it today, right now. Just take this piece of plastic," but that's the old con, as I say, you're either the lender or the debtor. The debtor is a slave.


Effie: Well, I got my coming up right quick the first time I borrowed money from the bank and they told me I had to have $100 to buy a cow, but they told me that I would only get $92. They had to take interest upfront. Then I got to thinking. When you're paying that back you're losing buying power every month, so by the time the six months you've lost half of your buying power. They've taken that money and loaned it two or three times to somebody else with the interest.


Alan:  That's right. The big credit companies like Merrill Lynch move millions maybe even trillions across the planet even within hours or overnight wherever the interest rate is the highest and keep it in a certain bank for maybe four or five hours, pull it out, put it into another one and that's all the savings of the people or what they think is the savings. Meanwhile they get a pittance back from the bank on their interest rates, but the big boys that own the companies make millions and millions of bucks.


Effie:  I know personally this girl, she's reliable, she worked in an almost close – her husband was a computer genius in the Pentagon. She worked in the city a few blocks from there and you know what her job was? She was taking the veterans' pensions and of course she was instructed – all she did was computer. She was actually selling and buying stock on Wall Street. That's what they were using the money for.


Alan:  Yes, I know. See, the people who make things don't make the money. It's the ones who handle other people's money that make the money. That's how the whole system works. The pen pushers, that's how it works. Didn't you work in the shipyards?


Effie:  Yes.


Alan:  When was that?


Effie:  Well, I came out of school and oh you can just imagine no one had money and you had a job. That was where I learned another few facts of life. I was taught to always save a little for a rainy day. Well, I went down to the shipyard in New Orleans and they were hiring people, you now hiring people. Well, a fellow told me he says you've got to have a union card and so I went down to the Union Hall down in town and of course having my $10 my savings I was able to buy a union card. Now I didn't have any money to buy food, but I went back and the minute I showed that union card I got inside and I got hired and that's how it went on that. Then I decided that I would work a double shift and so I presumed that I would get double pay. Well, when I got my check the government had taken half of that and so I put that back in my "personal computer." When I had my later episode with my second lesson with the government was on account of the milk inspector. That's one of the main reasons I sold out because I said well if I can't have it they're not going to have it. So I looked for the lean way to go and so I didn't make much money. I knew how to live without money. So I left here, I couldn't stand the city, so I happened to know a neighbor that told me I could go to work in the fruit warehouses. I mean in the southwest Washington State. So I went out there and I started thinning apples. Well, me and that three-legged ladder just kept wanting to part company in the middle of the air, so my landlord told me about maybe I could get on in the fall in the warehouse. That's how I started working there and at the time they didn't have – you only worked three months. You could manage and then if you made enough you could draw $12 unemployment. But like I said, I know how to live so I managed to live and I put in a garden and different things and I only worked in the fall. Of course I worked in the summer to get my garden in. In other words, what I had was food, shelter and clothes. That was it.


Alan:  So in other words, you arrived at the American dream. You achieved it.


Effie:  Reality. And like I said, the government hadn't reached out and put all these life supports on you know, all this stuff, but I did run into one little thing with the government. I didn't have garbage because I didn't buy at the store.


Alan:  You mean you weren't a good producer/consumer?


Effie:  Yes, that's right but the trouble was you see. I had to pay my garbage bill with my light bill. So I happened to ask the woman, I says I don't like this. I said I don't even put a half a can out in a month and a half and I said why should I have to pay that? Well, she was frank enough because sometimes you run across the workers working there if you approach them right they can tell you a whole lot. They tell you the truth. She says well frankly, she says if you don't pay your garbage bill they'll cut your lights off. So I call that collusion. But it's permissible by law because the boys that started it all, don't you agree that after they got their money started, there was the next thing was law and order. The law and order and now you hear that word more and more. It's the law and that is the problem.


Alan:  I preferred the old days when you knew you were a slave or a serf, same thing. It's politer to say serf in England because they don't want to remember that their ancestors were all slaves at one time to the Normans. They used to give decrees out, royal decrees, that was the law in those days. They had a royal decree. Now they just call it law and train us that some how it's a magic thing that no matter how illogical it seems you must obey it.


Effie:  It's the last result. They make that law, that's it. Do you know I want to ask you something, I run across something the other day and like I said I'm always inquiring. Well, I was reading about the establishments of castles and of course however this guy started he was more aggressive or whatever, he started a castle and there was a certain amount of protection and he encouraged that these serfs come and worked around, but as soon as they got a little security from him then he reached out and grabbed them. And so to me, that is really in a way how volunteer slavery got started and for their security they would give up everything. That's what you have here with these babies – these grown up babies that we have now. Like I said, from enticement to enslavement.


Alan:  Oh it is. It is.


Effie:  And they love their master.


Alan:  Yes, as long as you tell them you're going to make everything very convenient for them. You give them the remote controls for the TV. Dim the lights. Soon they won't have to move. You can just put a chip in their brain and wire them right into the computer and then they'll be secure because they'll be unable to think of anything to do themselves anyway. For easy access, "Isn't it so easy?" That's what the ads all say. It's so easy and they'll give up every right they ever had, before they even realize that they had it. They don't realize they've lost something until you've lost it or you didn't realize you had it until you lose it. That's right.


Effie:  Like I said, really and truly I saw the remnants. You were free to do – you had a choice. Like I told my nephew, I said if I didn't like this boss or I didn't want to scrape berries I could go with him and work at another job or I didn't even have to work unless I just wanted something special. You were sufficient but you weren't in town and you wasn't attached to nothing.


Alan:  That right. That's what the meaning of a citizen was. It means that you're owned by the city and they've made us think today that it's a nice thing to be a citizen; but all it is, is a legal thing to decide who has the right to tax you as an individual. So when you immigrate from one country to another the legalities are to do with those two countries at the top discussing your immigration because one has to give up the right for taxation over you, while the new one that you are going into takes it on. SO WHO OWNS YOU? That's really what the whole thing's about, but they make you feel proud to be a citizen and that's what Rome did. Citizen comes from city. You see the city and they created the city the first artificial beehive and that's what Nimrod's got their claim for in high masonry because he created the beehive. In a city, since you don't produce anything that's of any real use to anybody, you must create money to keep them there and with the money that you force on the rural areas you can then bring food into the city; and with the money you can then create an army for the first time, a standing army that will do what it's told and go wherever it's told. Money's the key to the thing called "civilization."


Effie:  But the trouble is it's a tight monopoly.


Alan:  Always.


Effie:  There is never enough money. Just think if there was enough money to develop.


Alan:  You see it's within man's nature, it doesn't matter what you called money or what you gave for money, there's always the ones the psychopathic cunning types with intelligence that will always take that system over. It's too easy to take over a system with money, a monied system. It's too easy.


Effie:  Well, like I said, I had this bright inspiration or stupidity. Everything would cost the same. There's no profit in it, but then I thought well sooner or later somebody will figure out how to bypass that.


Alan:  They would. They would, yes.


Effie:  Can you just imagine if a car today if you didn't have to pay taxes on it and profit each time what that car could cost?


Alan:  Or the 40-odd percent taxes on the gasoline. I know.


Effie:  Like I said, that's a vain waste of time to think those things and I think of what you said one time. There's only one thing to do or even have simple tribes and the minute anybody rose up that was a conniver you'd put him to death.


Alan:  Well you'd have to but if you didn't he would end up dominating you and you'd all be working for him for nothing. That's the slavery. That's exactly what they'd do. The nature of greed within the people is like putting candy in front of a child's face to have a monied system with certain clever and psychopathic types existing within it. They will take that over. They will definitely take it over. It doesn't matter what you use for money if you whole structured system works on money, which ours do – every so-called civilization is an economic system and it revolves around money and all the laws, all the culture, everything in that culture in society revolves around the money. That's the key to everything.


Effie:  Actually, you would have to keep money out of the system and so you would have a very simple lifestyle but you would be able to survive having essentials.


Alan:  The essentials, but here's the problem too. Since we're so far removed from nature now, with all the computerization, the TVs, laid on entertainment, laid on everything, most people would never want to go to any other system than the one they're in; even though the one they're in gives them ulcers, helps the divorce proceedings speed up, the break ups of families and the fear of losing their jobs. It's all they know and most of them could not imagine living any other way than the one they're in.


Effie:  I figure that my nephew is about 20%, maybe 40% in the world that I grew up – I mean he grew up in and the other 60% is his, so we had a little discussion today and I asked him. I said would you like to give up this fast lane and go back to the simple life when you was young and I said you would have to give up all this other stuff. He didn't answer so I said I know you wouldn't do it. It's too big of a sacrifice and you couldn't.


Alan:  Yes, most of them couldn't.


Effie:  Once you're addicted to this stuff it's like a fix and they're not going to have the will to do it and actually the enticer is always there trying to lure them back if they even thought about it. But when you really come down to it in the years that I've lived, I can say one thing for sure. Your possessions possess you and the only thing is the best things in life are free and that's the word, free, because if you're not free to enjoy them then they're of no service to you and you don't recognize them.  Alan, I could say with all honesty, a million dollars wouldn't even interest me and I'll tell you one thing, I am firm to my convictions. If the government was going to take 75% of it, I'd throw it away before they got it. That's how I feel about it. But that money wouldn't do me any good. I mean it doesn't interest me because I know what's in it.


Alan:  I know. It's a racket.


Effie:  As such and I seem to be doing nothing but talking personal, but how many people today that you know can get up and do what they want everyday? I can read all day. I can get up at midnight or go to bed at midnight. I can work today. I don't have to work today. And I guess you could say in my little citadel and I call it a citadel – there is a difference between a citadel and a castle, and I tell you, if anybody comes to try to get me out of it I'll be worse than the badger. Leave me alone and I know that I don't bother nobody and the days are short and you don't know what time or hour that sword will drop.


Alan:  I know. I always say that most folk are scared of living and afraid of dying, so they rush through their life because they're terrified of dying and they don't enjoy life because they're rushing through it.


Effie:  Yes. I have a sister that she's obsessed – she don't feel what she would have to do to continue living and I've come to the conclusion she's afraid to live and she's afraid to die, but she's more afraid to die. She'll take anything if they just let her live.


Alan:  That's exactly how the elite think as well and that's why of course they have all the higher sciences to keep themselves living.


Effie:  But I can say truthfully that it's less frightening to me anymore and there's a lot of things worse than dying.


Alan:  Well, there's a living death and that's the same thing, sure. Of course with civilization they're taking them towards a chip in their head, which they'll take, and I'll tell you they'll promise them this will end all of your problems. You won't be worried anymore about things. It will be better than a tranquilizer, and on it goes and they will go for that. The more you can terrify them, the more you can keep them panic stricken, the more you can scare them with all the economic depressions and everything that can go wrong in life.


Effie:   It must be they have a routine and--


Alan:  They do.


Effie:  I remember the lipstick scare. In other words, if it isn't a war or earthquake or some other calamity--


Alan:  Or plagues.


Effie:  It is a scare. Don’t you know you better not eat spinach? In other words, when they don't have anything else they'll throw that in there, but they remind me of a bunch of wasps. Keep them upset and stirred up so they can't get back and the first was the lipstick scare and periodically they'd come back with the same thing. I mean in between time they'll come back with some scare.


Alan:  Oh yes. Well you can't give any generation peace you see. You lose control of them if you give them peace.


Effie:  Then of course they've got to bring back the killing Sam or crazy Sam. They had one in Toronto.


Alan:  Montreal.


Effie:  Montreal.


Alan:  Another weird character exactly like the guys at the Columbine shooting and also he was even on the Internet with his own site where he always had guns pointing at the camera and it's a strange thing in a country like Canada where they would come down on you for the slightest thing. They allowed this guy to do all that.


Effie:  Well, I wondered – you told me how strict they are in Canada about guns.


Alan:  They need these guys. Whenever they want laws passed they can just program them, give them the buzzwords and off they go and do these things. That's right. Just like clockwork. You can count on it that it's going to happen.


Effie:  Yes, like I said, they’ve got to keep you upset all the time and scared.


Alan:  It's the old story you see. The end justifies the means and so they cause the situation when they can't get what they want. They cause the situation to say, see, see we told you so and they make it happen.  Again, this is an old, old routine.


Effie:  That's what I said, how thankful I was of you bringing the continuity because if you just take each one of these as an accident or isolated episode, but that's why they've got to keep you upset all the time. You don't have time to think because if you thought, well good night above, you could see the continuity and it's so monotonous and it's so simple.


Alan:  In the old days they used the lone knifeman – a loner. He always belonged to some cult or something and they'd stab whoever they were told to stab and stand there just waiting to get caught, or else he'd kill himself. Now it's the lone gunman, so they churn them out. Psychiatrists are good for that because you find pretty well all these guys have been to psychiatrists and I'm sure they're being programmed for their future use when they go to these certain psychiatrists.


Effie:  You said they program them.


Alan:  They are. The same with the guy in Scotland that did the Dunblane shooting. In Britain it's the hardest thing to get a handgun of all things and yet this guy had it and it's a British Lord that had spoken for him to tell the cops to give him the license, even though they knew he was a pedophile. They knew he was weird in many different ways and they still gave him that and he was seeing a psychiatrist too, that guy in Dunblane, and his mom said that that morning he came in as he did every morning and nothing unusual about him. Seemed quite relaxed as always and off he went. The next thing she says he was on the news when it happened. He was programmed. This is old stuff. Mind control is old stuff. Old, old stuff. That's what the MKULTRA things was all about here in Canada was the psychic driving over and over and over until you had a robot.


Effie:  Well, the people are so accustomed to it now you can mass control.


Alan:  Always. The whole population is getting it to some degree. Sure they are. Repetition, psychic driving. Boom, boom, boom and catch phrases. It's the phrases repeated over and over through advertisements or newscasts.


Effie:  Every advertisement lately, half of them at least, they'll suggest to you this is the easy way. You won't have all that hassle. All that hassle. Well, that's life. What do you expect?


Alan:  Well, you're either independent and with the hassle or it's all taken care of for you and you’re a slave.


Effie:  But you won't have this hassle if you just pay to take care of it for them.


Alan:  That's right and let an expert do it.


Effie:   That's right.


Alan:  What do you know? It's just amazing, but it's all training you see. It's Pavlovian responses. It's a world run by experts, even though they're talking through their hat most of the time or just lying straight probably through their teeth. We've all been trained to suddenly jump up and listen to an expert.


Effie:  Well, I found out personally about brainwashing. My mother went off and come back down here to visit with a daughter down here and so I run out of supplies, soap and stuff, and so I went to the store and what I did was in my mind's eye I was looking for the same brand that she had in the house and I couldn't find it and this is the real thing. I said well what shall I get? I've got to have some soap and so what I did was I looked at the array and I picked out the commercialized soap that I had looked at and at least I had judgment enough to have figured it out. I says I've been brainwashed because that's the soap I picked, the one that I saw on TV. So what would you call that? Brainwashing.


Alan:   Sure it is. It stuns me. I grew up watching certain soap powders making clothes "whiter than white" and at first they were just white then extra white and then it was whiter than white and then it was brilliant dazzling blue white and same stuff. Hasn't changed at all, except the prices.


Effie:  And like you said, human nature don't change.


Alan:  No, it don't change at all. It don't change at all. So you're certainly getting – how are they doing with the rebuilding of New Orleans there?


Effie:  Selective.


Alan:  Selective. Do they still have all the checkpoints down there in the roads and stuff or is that finished?


Effie:  They haven't even started. I mean like I said certain neighborhoods where the highest real estate will be and it's almost like an act of attrition. The people can't come back if they don't have homes and they could get work but they can't get a home, so it's a catch like that. But they trip you up and they're not really doing nothing except I call it all the stuff that rebuilt a superdome. I call it the super dunce cap myself and so I didn't even turn on the radio to even to listen to the news or the weather because they have an extra fit of football season. They go extra mad.


Alan:  Domes for dummies I call them.


Effie:  In those sports. When you really come down to it, it's going to be just like you said or predicted, that the city would be for the rich.


Alan:  It's going to be a small more habitat area for the UN.


Effie:  Going to be turned into habitats.


Alan:  That's right.


Effie:  They have National Guard down there 300 and some of them. They've got 50 or 80 state troopers beside the police and they still are having 10 shootings a night. Nothing's changed. It sort of reminds me you know before Hitler appeared they let everything go to pot until the people begged them to do something.


Alan:  Same with Mussolini, that's how he got in.


Effie:  The latest I heard was there's a gang, three of them, that go into a bar and they come back in a few minutes with arms. They put the patrons in a room and rob them and they robbed the bar.


Alan:  I mean you don't even give the customers a free drink before they leave – on the house.


Effie:  But like a poor woman said, she says the National Guard is four buildings down the road. They didn't help us.


Alan:  Maybe it wasn't under their jurisdiction.


Effie:  They had their orders. In other words, it's going to be so lawless down there that you're a fool if you stay.


Alan:  Where exactly is that?


Effie:  Mostly in the French Quarter, the high ground.


Alan:  The high ground.


Effie:  They're not going to do anything with the other. Like you said they're going to – in fact people don't have enough water. Their lights are uncertain. The street lights are bad. They're having wrecks on account of – you know it's just a planned confusion.


Alan:  Really, and yet America wants to export this system across the world. Boy, we've got a lot to look forward to.


Effie:  Well, I know I've heard a part of what a fellow – you know people write into a paper and he says we want to make Kuwait just like us, overburdened with taxes and crime and dope and everything else. He says that's what comes along with that.


Alan:  I know. Drugs, crime, abortion clinics, all the usual stuff. Again, that's their cutting edge of civilization. Export that across the planet until everyone is interdependent, there are no marriages left at all and no one can get along with anybody else, so the government's your boss directly to you. You're on your own. The strategy is amazing.


Effie:  I'll tell you the truth. I would have rather lived – I had a good life even with all – it built me up but I wouldn't trade places with my grand nephews right now. They're in the fast lane, her and her husband, and you would say that they are really lucky but I wouldn't trade places with them. I wouldn't because they have nothing. And the most thing is the worst part of it the government can take it any day.


Alan:  They can take it at any day but I think it's also what you leave this life with in your mind. See most people when you have no challenges, when you think you're making it and everything is coming your way, you don't remember anything. There's nothing to remember. There's nothing particular to remember. You don't learn or grow in any fashion whatsoever and you might have all the material things at the end of life, which are immediately auctioned off usually or seized by the government for back taxes, but you learn nothing. You haven't grown at all. The body grows old but the mind hasn't moved at all and that's again the side effect.


Effie:  Everything is instant gratification and I was telling my nephew the other day, I said I enjoyed the anticipation – I enjoyed what I had and so it was worthy of remembrance. They had this gratification so quick they're looking for another just like a fix and they have nothing to remember. No pleasant memories. Nothing to remember.


Alan:  No. Just a mountain of garbage before it got plowed under pretty well. Disposable garbage. You see, that's not what a life is. A fulfilled life is not that at all.


Effie:  Well, that's what I hear, is that all life is? Is a job until you are too old to do any good and then somebody give you a pittance and you're not even ever going to retire because inflation. That little pittance is not going to keep you going. You're going to have to work until you drop. I wonder if that could have been planned that way?


Alan:  Well yes. That's the whole thing. The whole thing is a planned society. A planned society is what they talked about 100 years ago or more, where everything would be planned from birth to death, cradle to grave.


Effie:  Well, that's what intrigued me the title of this book here. As you said so many times and I've seen myself, war creates – so much can be carried under the banner of war and then planning--


Alan:  And social change.


Effie:  And so a planned economy is what he taught. Then it says state corporation.


Alan:  The governments expand their powers. All departments of bureaucracy expand their powers under war.


Effie:  You know I got interested in the AAA during the Depression. I thought I would look up all these abbreviations. I know about WPA because I lived part of it, but the AAA that was the Agricultural Adjustment Agency and they give a list of how agriculture moved in and when you really stop to think about it, isn't that peculiar in the Constitution which it wasn't even certain that you'd even get it made or legalized and that you wouldn't even know if you was going to be able to defend those little countries anyway. They'd give so much in each township land colleges. So I would say that story – then grants to experimental stations and then they'd give land grants to states to develop agriculture. So if you really want to – it's very interesting, even Washington suggested there should be more attention given to agriculture; but anyway, through the years how the agriculture moved in and took over so much stuff.


Alan:  The big agri-food companies now have taken over all the small farms.


Effie:  That's what the AAA was all about, to control agriculture.


Alan:  That's right.


Effie:  And the best part of it, like the fellow said in the article, he was elaborating on it, but he said that when the government paid the farmers and they sold their products cheap. I remember how all of a sudden you'd see all the canners could buy this cheap food and can it and I remember all of a sudden how shelves got so full of Libby's and Del Monte's and different ones.


Alan:  And Dole. Don't forget Dole.


Effie:  Oh yes, Dole.


Alan:  A big family there.  Remember Rockefeller said “competition is a sin.”

Effie:  Oh yes.


Alan:  They meant it. He wasn't being flippant. He was making a statement of fact according to him and his higher religion. Because these boys at the top see that – unless it's their monopoly, then all competition is literally a sin.


Effie:  Well, let's put it this way. That was another choice. You could have a choice to have a little mom and pop business and people had them. You were independent and they hired these under-aged children and that kept them occupied and they learned something; but anyway, the government comes in and says, ah, you're being cruel using these children under ages. So naturally they're getting paid. That's what we used to do to pick up a little change. Work for somebody. We were grateful. But all the little businesses were cut out. And right here where I live the people had to leave and if they kept their home, and I couldn't call it country anymore, but if they kept their home here it's about 60 miles to Baton Rouge and about 75 to New Orleans. If you want to live out here or can live out here, you go to work everyday. There's no work here. You could pick beans. You could ship berries. I mean there was little crop farms and little businesses. You could go to town and really what they call shops. There was competition. If you wanted to get a tire even in this small town there was two or three places you could go compare the prices and the products, but all you've got is one now and those people that would work on that are working for the government or in jail or on relief.


Alan:  That's called progress.


Effie:  Oh yes. There was a song that the British played at wherever – they surrendered. It was called "A World Upside Down," and I have the words to it but that's what's wrong. The world is upside down.


Alan:  It's not so difficult when a few wise people with archives of real history and real human psychology can create a culture and keep you completely naive from birth to death as to the real facts of life and that's what's happened.


Effie:  That's right.


Alan:  They've trained millions and millions and millions of people into their system. Give them a fake reality coming from the newscasters and so on and magazines and that's really what it's all about. The guys at the top understand the science of controlling people and how to indoctrinate them into any reality they care to create.


Effie:  Well, here I go personal again, but it disturbed me. Remember I told you that when I went to New Orleans and the levee could have broken at any minute and I stood there and went on about my business. I never thought about any of the possibilities of what could have happened. That worried me. I kept thinking about it and I'd like to know not only how but why and so I kept thinking about that and what happened was if you go to the city you're disarmed. There's automatically less danger in crowds and then I thought of what you said one time that we're born with a certain instinct of self-survival but it's taken away from us, so you see when you go to the city you let down your guard because there's other people and they're acting normal and then you have the authorities to tell you what and they tell you and you have the police to protect you and the first thing you know you're a little mushy nothing. You've lot all your self-survival instincts and if you stay there that's what's going to happen to you.


Alan:  Yes, I know.


Effie:  But that's what and like I said they listen and then they're more enmeshed in it everyday. They tell them what to think, what to do and everything.


Alan:  What's popular in the theater. What's the in thing right now. Where it is. The movies and where to go and where to eat and what to do. You don't really have to make a choice for yourself anywhere.


Effie:  Well, I'll tell you the truth of the matter of this is really all of a sudden my mind's maybe pulling stuff up in my computer. I remember when I was younger and you know how things are pass away, fade away, Alan? You don't remember when they stopped, like a steam engine? Well, I got to thinking about that when – like you said, everything is normal now. Everything that happens is normal. Well, when I was younger, I would say up to the 50's, if you questioned anything people would look at you and say are you crazy? You mean to say you expect the government to wait until the end of the year to take taxes from you and that you can have that money all year? Are you crazy? But everything that you brought up that was sensible or anything that was different, that was the first word said to you. This is the thing I was thinking today. I don't hear that said anymore because there's nobody with sensible ideas anymore. Everything that they tell you over the six o'clock news, that's it. You accept but you don't question anything.


Alan:  That's right. It doesn't dawn on them that this is a manufactured reality and they've given over their ability to reason to the media and they truly believe it's there to do their thinking for them. They really believe that.


Effie:  I think about what you said one time about they – I lost what I was going to say there--


Alan:  About the media and thinking and logic. They can't see through the cons anymore because our reality is marketed to us on a daily basis. It's marketed to us and whatever is politically correct and pushed at the top they start parroting the same phrases, same catch words and all the rest of it and adopt the attitudes they are told to adopt. That's exactly like it was in "1984". It was about Winston who was the bureaucrat who woke up to the reality of life and when he was being tortured (because he was awake) by a superior, his superior says to him, if I say I can fly and you say I can fly, he says, then I can do whatever I want. Reality in other words is whatever they tell us it is. Normalcy is whatever they make it. It can be made into anything and the public go along without even noticing.


Effie:  Oh I know what I was thinking of. You said talking along the line of everything being normal. Well, you don't question that. I mean in other words, why not? – There's a dozen other different ways you could do it, but nobody ever brings that up and if you did they'd put you away.


Alan:  That's what I'm saying. It's whatever they tell us is normal is where we go and the public they adopt that, if it's a new custom, a new way of looking at something or behaving or whatever. They adopt it and in no time at all it's automatic with them. They don't even notice where it came from. It wasn't their idea in the first place. Of course most of the public, and this is known by the ones at the top, they don't want to be different from the mob, from the herd. They want to be the same so that's why it's so easy to control the masses of people in all ages, as opposed to brainwash an occasional individual here or there.


Effie:  Well, the more they hovey and covey up, the more they've got to be the same.


Alan:  They dress the same, look the same, they talk about the same subjects—whatever is given them to talk about from the magazines and movies.


Effie:  I was thinking about that today and what you said about uniforms. They throw good clothes away every year to get the latest fashion.


(HOUR 3)


I read a story one time about a scene in St. Louis. You have a guy in mole-skin pants. You had a guy with a buckskin on. You had dog cloth. You had Lindsey wood and I doubt if hardly two people were dressed the same and it was fine and even some of them took the Indian habit of cutting the britches out in back and so they all were different but they wore what they wanted and you went into the store or you went anywhere, you bought what you fancied. But now you go in any store – I mean I don't care how many stores you go. Those fall fashions are all the same and actually everybody now you'd think that they was nude if they don’t have the same clothes as you have or the crowd.


Alan:  Or weird. He must be weird, he's different. I know.


Effie:   In fact they don't even have the nerve or the thought to do it.


Alan:  It doesn't dawn on them. In fact what they don't realize subconsciously they want to CON-form. Conform to the rest, that's how it's done. This is what I am saying is most people go through life never noticing that mostly the thoughts or preoccupations aren't even their own. They're marketed right into their brain. What they're thinking about. The movie they talk about. The topics they talk about are marketed right to them. Electronic—trick of the elect.


Effie:   Well, I'll tell you I've often heard that old people wished they were young again, but I can guarantee you I don't. I wouldn't want to be them now. But then I don't have their mentality. I would have to adjust to their mentality before I could endure it.  


Alan:  I mean there's nothing to look forward to. It's just spend, spend, as you say, looking for something to make them happy because there is no contentment you see. They're not allowed to be content.


Effie:  Like I said, it's almost like a drug. They get a fix. They get their gratification and as soon as they get it they run out and looking for something else.


Alan:  See in this system where we are today that's natural now because they have no connection with their family. There's no intimacy there with parents. Their parents don't take time and talk to them. A lot of them are lucky if their parents are even home and so they grow up looking for some substitute and it's always marketed to them by the professionals, this will make you happy.


Effie:  There's about six miles of new highway out here, the second road I get on, secondary state road, and they give them all new mailboxes and that was about a year ago, so I was noticing as I was driving along to town the other day that nearly every one of those mailboxes has been initiated. And so like I said when you was talking about the parents not being home, maybe sometimes the parents are home and the children aren't.


Alan:  Yes, that too.


Effie:  One or the other is gone all the time.


Alan:  There's no real discussions anymore. The parents simply finance the child as it grows up to be a good worker, a consumer-producer and that's what Bertrand Russell said, "it's cheaper to allow the parents stay rearing their children and spending for them, while the state will control the mind of the child," and that's happened you see. It's all been done.


Effie:  Well, if you think about it, I was just happened to be looking through something the other day and I run across the schools. I was able to escape. They were mostly furnishing school books and such was furnished by the state and they had control of the curriculum, and so I noticed in Truman's realm, I guess I could call it the presidency, he was urging to help some schools and you know what follows from that. Also you stop to think about it, anybody that buys the books. I mean the books are all important, which they were. Well, you see I escaped a little because I was out in the country and so rather than buy a new book with the grade every year, we got some of the old books from the city and so we got to learn a little more than, say, somebody else in the big cities. Of course one of the duties of the school board was to select the books. Wasn't that a big job? I mean a mind bigger than you would think. Select that kind of book. What is in that book for you to read?


Alan:  Well, it's what you should know. What they decide that you should know and what you shouldn't know. All you need to know. That's right but even the schools were set up for control as well to uniform society and churn out uniform thinkers who all thought along the same things, same directions because they'd all been trained in the same system and who would all parrot the same things to each other because they'd all been trained in it and they'd all think they were normal because they all parroted it at the same time. That's how normalcy is judged by the people. And yet as I say, if you go from – even in Quebec they still give a different version of history than the ones that are taught in English speaking schools, so it's the same.


Effie:  I remember you telling me.


Alan:  There's different versions of history, it depends who's teaching you and where you are, and it's true enough that HISTORY IS ALWAYS WRITTEN BY THE VICTORS and victors doesn't connotate good guys. It just means the guys that won and that's the system again that you live in.


Effie:  Well, somebody knew that you control the mind and the body follows. It's that control of that mind, all the information that you feed into it.


Alan:  That's right. It's perfect to grab the mind when it's young and indoctrinate it. Train it into different – just every generation is taught a little bit different when they begin school from the previous ones so that big changes, which are planned maybe 30 years down the road, they'll adopt it much easier because they've been indoctrinated to see it in a different light when they were young.


Effie:  You know I was thinking along that line about normalcy and you accept what's given to you. Well, if you never – it's like a child that walks by a snake or anything. If you don't know anything how can you think, how can you even question if you don't know anything?


Alan:  If they only give you a certain amount of facts and don't give you all the rest of the story, you get a totally different idea or perspective on the particular situation.


Effie:  This is a particular example of I saw during the civil rights program, I mean it was heavy down here and in this town this reliable person told me the police had a dog. You know how the policemen started using dogs and they're trained. This picture come out of this raging dog jumping at this colored person, but what they cut out of the picture was this colored person had a baseball bat and he was trying to attack the policeman. The dog was only acting, but you see when you looked at the picture all you saw was the dog attacking the colored man and so you had a biased opinion – I mean picture.


Alan:  Yes that's how. Sure.


Effie:  The other day the mayor down in New Orleans says, oh, we're going to have better communications this time. We have that rectified and he says the people – get a load of this. "The people are going to be told what they need to know." That says it all, doesn't it? But to the average person that passes over their head. I just instinctly hear that.


Alan:  They love these little legal phrases they use. They can be terribly honest at times in such a simple way that it does go over people's heads.


Effie:  You know they had quite a confusion down there so the other mayor I mean the president of the parish next to him he says and I caught that word the first time they used it, 'mandatory,' in Corpus Christi, 'mandatory evacuation'. That was a red flag to me. Okay, then I wondered why they kept bringing that up a couple of times. Now you see Ivan in 1924 they had a volunteer evacuation but now last year they had a mandatory and that was it. That's all they said. So this is what the man said – the president said this time and why I was looking up municipalities. People don't stop to think that they don't even have a potential boarding for anybody. A city counsel can make a law a city ordinance. Okay, this is what he said. He says, we are not going to force anybody to leave. We're not going to force them to leave if we declare a mandatory evacuation, but he says we are going to have troops and you will be confined to your house and if you are determined to stay we will not make you go; but it made me think, I won't have to make you, I'll show you and so he said it was enacted as a city ordinance in Jefferson Parrish the president said and he said it will be a 24-hour confinement. You will be confined to that house. Now he didn't guarantee that they wouldn't invade you like they did this time, but you will be arrested if you step out of that house for any reason and so that says mandatory evacuation so far. But now you've got a young hot-blooded boy about 18 or 19 years old. He's done got boarded over in Kuwait. He's got a weapon in his hand. I doubt if he would be prosecuted if he just accidentally shot you, impulsively. In other words, what they're telling you is if you step out of that house your life isn't worth a dime.


Alan:  They are training them no matter where they're sent.


Effie:  Now what I see in the five years they started that mandatory evacuation, that was dry runs to see how people would react to it and also get them used to having Army uniforms because there's no difference between the National Guard and the Army.


Alan:  I know and the National Guard is sent abroad too. They're all trained over there as well, so they've been trained not to regard any citizen anywhere in the world as any different from anyone else. Every one is.


Effie:  It's sort of like the police. They have a clan--


Alan:  A brotherhood.


Effie:  And they're the only ones that matter.


Alan:  That's right. Super-tribe. You join the super-tribe. It's the first thing they're taught once you put a uniform on. You're special now. Those civilians are a lower strata and they're trained that way in every country on the planet.


Effie:  I think about what you said about that German youth. "That was the first time I had clothes, the Hitler youth uniforms."


Alan:  And took them out in the country to camp just like the boy scouts. Of course the young communists league did the same thing for the communists.


Effie:  And I'm sure that the CC boys didn't go to the camps without any clothes on. They were given World War I uniforms--


Alan: Army uniforms.


Effie:  So what does that tell you?


Alan:  Same techniques you see.


Effie:  Yes and they had a military conditioning, routine. My cousin, big old something that his mother made a baby of, he got in it and they sent him to Nevada and he was scared of the rattlesnakes, he was scared of anything and everything but he didn't like to be ordered around in a military camp. So he cried and begged and went on and his mother was carrying on with the same tradition. Somehow or another she got him transferred. He didn't get out but he got transferred back near home here, but I'm just saying that was personally I know that was a military camp and you didn't leave it either and you didn't have a chance anyway. They took you in the middle of the national forest. You wouldn't have had no ride anyway. It was prepared. Where you stop to think, you had the Hitler youth and I think that Mussolini was training – he had his youth too and trained them.


Alan:  Of course even in Britain they had the same thing, the Boy Scouts, then they had the Army Cadets at school.


Effie:  The Boy Scouts really originated from England, didn't it?


Alan:  Yes.


Effie:  Well, you know it's too much of a coincidence--


Alan:  Uniforms, again uniforms.


Effie:  Oh yes. I can remember and the different uniforms that the boys could get going up the line to be a real scout. Oh yes, my nephews here they got into it a little and they wanted mama to buy them a uniform. In fact, I think they was more interested in the uniform, but the scout master fell through and that fell through and mama just told them she didn't have the money anyway. That was it and she certainly didn't have any way for them to take them there. She wasn't wanting them to be among strange children. Like I said, I don't have to dramatize nor do I have to make up a story. I just told you the things I experienced. I lived through them.


Alan:  Yes, the American dream. It's for dreamers.


Effie:  That's right.


Alan:  These times can certainly brought back a more updated fashion, but it can certainly be brought back with the same effects. They want a dependent society dependent on governmental instructions and that's coming down the pike right now.


Effie:  Well, I'll tell you what and I find it awful that the end of the deal is many a person has spent three-quarters of their lives, they're in their 60's now, if they're lucky enough they have their house paid for. Well, these people FEMA and all that and the government is going to give these people to build a house eventually. Some will and some won't be able to but they're going to give each one of them $150,000 to rebuild a house, but I know the end of it and the money will be stolen and given and piddled away, but I asked somebody. I asked how do you feel? I says you worked all those years, 40 years, 35 years, to pay for your house and these people can take this money from FEMA and it doesn't bother their conscience at all. It's as if FEMA was creating the money fancy-free. They don't care. They wouldn't care if you told them that other people have to pay for that. It's not free.


Alan:  Again, that's a sign of the people who are already conditioned into dependence.


Effie:  That's right and they're panting after it. They call and say am I meeting the standards so I can get it? That's all they're interested in is getting it.


Alan:  Again, there's no cohesiveness in society; because if they were, each individual would realize that someone else has got to suffer to pay this.


Effie:  That's right. Well, like I said I know people that run to Medicaid and such everyday. That's their lifestyle. Well, I could go down there and get some things maybe I should tend to but I don't think it's right to go down there for my fancy or for my imagination or whatever or something that I don't have to have. Somebody has to pay that. Like my sister said, it's free. I said it's not free. I said there's nothing free. Somebody's got to pay for it. Do you know, Alan, I was going to go get my head x-rayed. Well, they didn't bother with that. They shoved me right into the head scan. I saw a bill on that the other day. I doubt if I was in there in and out more than five minutes. You know what that bill was? Over $1,000. Well, somebody's got to pay for that.


Alan:  And the bankers love this system because it means debt from borrowed money from governments to them and governments can get it from only one place and that's you. It's your labor. That's all money really represents is someone's labor.


Effie:  I can remember reading about the shortcomings and the mess over in England with socialized medicine and so when Truman and the good boys up there decide to force it on us, well, the doctors were protesting and they did have enough ump to protest if somebody would listen to them. They just knew that it was going to ruin them. When they finally passed it and they found out what a lushy deal it was, they were the ones for it; and honestly just like I told someone today. I said I don't care to go down there because I said it is not – I said if they can buy one more machine, I said they're not interested in you. They want to put you on another machine and see if they can make you some more money out of you before they let you loose and when the first time I went to the doctor I must have been 21 years old, it was $3 for an office visit. So you see what inflation and greed does.


Alan:  It's incredible greed.


Effie:  It is incredible.


Alan:  There's a lot of money to be made in misery. Big money. I know. It's incredible when someone goes into the hospital for four or five days and end up with a bill for $15,000. I mean it's disgusting. It's disgusting it is.


Effie:  When you stop to think about it in a way and you're being blackmailed into insurance. Anyway, when you think about it, if you had that kind of a bill you would be sentenced for the rest of your life to pay for it, so why would you even bother in the first place? You might as well be dead and be done with it.


Alan:  It's disgusting.


Effie:  It's more than disgusting. It makes your soul sick and you know what I mean.


Alan:  Oh, absolutely. Meanwhile through propaganda of dramatizations on television and TV series, they make us think through the actors that lawyers, doctors and police are all these special people taking care of us. People soak up all these dramas and they love it and it's all propaganda to make you think something else from the reality, what it really is all about. It's huge business. Greed, power, greed, business. It's disgusting.


Didn't you say that down in New Orleans some people were getting new roofs put on and they didn't even need them when FEMA was dishing out the money?


Effie:  Yes.


Alan:  It's a grab free all.


Effie:  I'll tell you the truth of the matter. You've seen dogs panting after something. When they had anything free, well, first of all the Red Cross give you – if you come and you could wait in line long enough, they give you $2,000. Then FEMA got in on the act finally and give you $2,000 and then that was allegedly for rent and they would pay you rent for a year or more, and you ought to have seen people. They were almost fighting. They couldn't even have – they had to have policemen out there to keep them in line and they reminded me of panting dogs and just about as much dignity, crawling on their stomachs. And you have calamities all your life. That's what life is about. You're supposed to make out on your own. Well, that's what people used to do. You made out on your own, but now you've got a bunch of wimps. They're raised with their hand out.


Alan:  And you've got a government that encourages it though.


Effie:  Oh yes, oh yes. And how can you have a nation with half the people – I mean the government telling half the people what to do and taking everything they have and giving your stuff that you worked for, taking it from you. It's the law you know. Oh, it's the law and then you have to work but they take it and give it to other half. Well, that's discouraging right there. Why should I work when they're going to take it from me and give it to someone else? As old Lincoln said, "you can't have a house divided." You can't have the government in business and halfway in and halfway out of business and life. It's either got to be a dictatorship or it's got to be the other way, out of it. So it's bound to – it has to go bad.


Alan:  In fact, even Plato when through all the different cycles of different types of government and he always said that democracy ends up with a form of communism. What he meant really is – SEE, FASCISM AND COMMUNISM ARE REALLY THE SAME THINGS.  They really are the same things, where the big banks and industry and the control of the tools and all the rest of it and factories are all in collusion with government; and Plato says democracy ends up with dictatorship or communism ends up with a dictatorship. It's inevitable. It happened many times before he was alive and he saw it in his own day, so they know what they're doing and where they're going.


Effie:  Actually the government has got to the stage where it is practically a dictatorship.


Alan:  It's true.


Effie:  They just haven't made it official.


Alan:  That's right. I mean laws, laws, laws are getting pushed all the time and now they're going for private property and they want access through private property through various means, house inspections, all this kind of stuff, until you're just a serf once again and openly you'll be a serf. That's the Brave New World they're bringing in here. It's just a more updated form of slavery like Charles Galton Darwin said.


Effie:  When you really come down to it, if I know I'm a slave you have to guard me, but if don't believe I am--


Alan:  You guard yourself.


Effie:  You don't have to put out that expense.


Alan:  We're the best self-sufficient slaves there are. We clothe ourselves, feed ourselves. We buy the automobiles to get to work. We pay all the taxes that keeps the government up there where they are in the lifestyle that they're used to. We don't need guards round about us because we're trained to think this is normal. We buy ourselves the food and the clothing and the shelter but we're just slaves nonetheless. If you can leave this life and nothing was ever really yours, then what were you? Nothing is really yours.


Effie:  If you really want to know I was thinking of the obituaries. You look at it. Is that all you've got? That's you? That's it.


Alan:  This is what they call what life is. Life is all about acquiring all this stuff that gets auctioned off when you die.


Effie:  Just like I was telling my nephew today, I said the Rockefellers and that all put their money in foreign--


Alan:  That's right, trusts.


Effie:  I said the corporations are perpetual, they don't have secessions, but I said how many times I've even heard in my lifetime that our mate or partner especially a wife has to sell. She can't even keep what they accumulated. She has to sell it to divide it among the children at a forced sale. Because when you have to sell something in a hurry, you don't have the maneuverability and also the government laughs in the end. No matter how much you had and how much taxes, how many times you paid that tax, it's still a capital gain.


Alan:  And you get death duties too.


Effie:  Oh yes.


Alan:  Death duties.


Effie:  I guess the reason why I got to studying about that after I got out of the dairy business because those 18 - 16 hour days don't give you much time, and I'm talking hard labor, and so I was attached to a cow’s back end and so I got to thinking about what is wrong with this world. I said you mean to tell me that with all the generations of my family, just in my family and they were saving people, you mean to tell me that they couldn't even pass along $5 to each succeeding generation? What was wrong?


Alan:  That's right. Something was definitely wrong. And of course it was. The system has been rigged for an awful, awful long time.


Effie:  And like I said it leaves you where it says seek ye the truth. It don't tell you that you'll never find it. It's there and available if you want to look for it. It's there.


Alan:  You see the public get dreams. They're given dreams. They're marketed dreams, not reality. THE ELITE IN SOCIETY ARE TAUGHT THE REALITY. We just chase after rainbows. I think if you can go out of this world as I say knowing things and understanding with a satisfied mind, then you've jumped the last hurdle.


Effie:  That's just what I was thinking when you said that, a satisfied mind. I have a satisfied mind. Somebody was saying I had to buy a bush-hog so I let my tractor man have the two. He came out and checked me and I was going to have to haul them off. So he and his son come and picked them up the other day and so they was going on about a new truck he had and I says I wouldn't have that piece of junk. I said I'd just as soon have my old truck, but it's that glamour of that new thing. They've been trained to buy, buy, buy, produce, produce, produce, and consume.


Alan:  Again, it's to reward yourself. I've rewarded myself.


Effie:  You know really thinking about it, 72 years I would say of watching this parade from one stage to an enslavement stage and you know if somebody would have told me this when I was 20 years old or something I couldn't have believed it. It's hard to believe. I mean even it's hard to believe when you see it happening, Alan. I know you feel the same way sometimes. You can't believe that people are like they are. You know they are but you just – it's hard. Oh yeah, did you receive a letter from me?


Alan:  I did.


Effie:  You did?


Alan:  Yes.


Effie:  I just wanted to know so in case it wandered off somewhere. That's all.


Alan:  I got the mail yesterday. Won't get mail until Monday now. We don't get weekends here because we're more advanced social-wise than you are. Nothing moves on the weekend.


Effie:  You know you told me when you was living in the other house that they didn't deliver--


Alan:  Saturday or Sunday. They don't even pick it up.


Effie:  They don't deliver mail here on Sunday but they still – they're talking about expense, they might drop Saturday's mail.


Alan:  They might drop it?


Effie:  Yes. Not delivering.


Alan:  Yes, you see here there's no pick-up of mail from the post offices either at the weekend.


Effie:  Well, there used to be and I happened to talk to the postmaster here in a little town close to me about 3-1/2 miles. He lived up the road and so he and I was conversing and he told me that up to they went big time in government in private/public changeover, that if you dropped a letter in the mailbox over the weekend there was somebody there to send it along its way. They don't do that anymore but I'll tell you another thing. They close at 12 o'clock. I mean from 12 to 1. They have a lunch break, the same with the courthouse.


Alan:  Well, they have to do it at the courthouse because they work so hard there.


Effie:  I know that.


Alan:  It's all that adjourning.


Effie:  Well, the thing is, while you were busy trying to make a living YOU DIDN'T REALIZE THAT THE SERVANTS TURNED INTO THE MASTERS


Alan:  That's right, a beautiful con job starting off calling themselves public servants. Beautiful con job, it's the opposite of what you'd ever imagine and then they end up they are your bosses. Now of course your masters are making themselves felt as such and they don't smile like they used to. They have this perfunctory mask-like smile. They always had the lobster eyes in bureaucratic offices when they'd look at you, but now they don't even do that. They just sort of look sideways at you. They don't really want to look at you like they've noticed you. Yes, I know. That's again part of the failings within humanity because those people were recruited from all type of people, all society, all classes. It's a snobbish thing in humans. There's people who want power you see. Even the petty people want power too and so this repeats itself over and over. There's a big flaw, a big, big flaw in human nature as well. That's why we're so easily exploited. Any tyrant needs followers. Any tyrant. He's no use on his own. He needs followers.


Effie:  They need somebody to do the work. Well, I think I'm blessed. About the time I might think I know a little something, something comes along and shows me how much more I need to learn, and then I've been sick just enough to appreciate being well, and I never did have enough money to make a fool of myself or get greedy and so I'm mighty lucky. But the most important to me is these people that learn a little something and think they're smart.


Alan:  Yes, I know.


Effie:  Oh my gosh, Alan. There's stuff that you still you have to learn. I mean me, anyway, speaking for myself.


Alan:  It's ongoing.


Effie:  You know it's the most fascinating thing that I know of. It keeps me busy, I mean fascinated all the time. Something new. I've often said that if you live a day and in other words if you don't learn something each day you haven't lived.


Alan:  That's true. It’s better than just being a creature of instinct, where you arise in the morning and you go through your perfunctory routines and do all the things you've been trained to do and then go to bed and sleep and it's just another day.


Effie:  Well, you know I don't know if I completed what I was saying about destiny. It just seems like something always pulls me reach that crossroads where I went back to my roots, always, instinct to get away from the crowd. Be a loner. I think on my own and I hate to use me, me, me, such as that, but it's just like and I thought of that. Every time you get in the city and you get in a crowd and you start consciously or unconsciously letting your defenses go down.


Alan:  Yes, you get absorbed in the mass.


Effie:  So like I said like everybody else I've had my several crossroads and I'm lucky. I don't call it luck or whatever you call it, destiny, but I always got away and you know be yourself and never get so involved that you can't have time to enjoy something, the simple things. And I don't know, sometimes you look at people and they make you mad. They're so dumb and then you look at them again and it's like as if how can they fend for themselves or how can they do any different if they don't know that there's danger?


Alan:  That's what a good planned society the indoctrination makes them into. They're totally unaware. That's domestication you see, totally unaware.


Effie:  Unaware. I can remember one time as a child living out in the country, well, it was only a coats whip. It was harmless snake, but my sister and I, he was in the middle of the road in the lane and so we couldn't get around him and so we got this spontaneous idea well we'd jump over him. It was so much fun we jumped over him again. We were jumping back and forth. Well, that's what I call innocence and it was just a good thing. It was--


Alan:  A harmless one.


Effie:  A harmless snake. I don't know if we got tired of the game or my uncle come along and give us a good lecture or what or even might have warmed our backside a little because people didn't mess around with you. They didn't have time to mess around with you and cuddle you. If I did something and cut myself or did something, I didn't go to my parents because they'd tell me right away they didn't give me much sympathy. Well, you should have been more careful, you learned something. You won't do that again and to some people they say that's cruel. These baby-cuddling sociologic people--


Alan:  Well, you see what they should have done is phone 911 and rushed you in to get your tetanus shot.


Effie:  Well, you know my brother was fascinated by matches and my mother, he was the first child, and she had lots of work to do and she didn't have any time. She couldn't be dragging a baby around and watching him. He was active and so sometimes she would leave him in the house a few minutes to go get some water or something and so he kept fooling with the matches and she kept telling him they would burn him. Well, so she decided that, okay, he lit a match, you just let him hold it and it burnt the devil out of him and she says, "burn." Well now it just wasn't the word anymore. That stopped that and some people – mama was telling about that and that woman says oh that's so cruel. Well, if he'd of burned up in the house that would have been all right, it wouldn't have been cruel, would it?


Alan:  That's right. I know.


Effie:  Well, it seems like my conversation has been mostly personal. Again we can talk about something besides me or me doing a lot of reminiscing, but you know you think about things like that and other things come to mind that you wouldn't have thought of.


Alan:  What is it they say? The road to hell is paved with good intentions. The road to the straightjacket is paved with supposedly good intentions. Mind you, see, we're much safer today.


Effie:  We're what?


Alan:  We're much safer you see.


Effie:  Oh yes.


Alan:  We don't have to worry about being unsafe because there's someone out there who's an expert in anything you could possibly to do to harm yourself.


Effie:  When I first moved out here or even up to 20 years ago, I never raised up my head or looked around. It was safe enough. Now you hear something strange, just periodically, it pays you to look around to see what's maybe coming up on you.  You're not free anymore. If the policeman passes you on the road, which is about 50 or 60 yards from my house, the lights showing are reflected in the house; I get up and look. You don't know what might be happening. They might even be coming here to my house. But you're not – let's put it this way. What happened to the old Constitution guaranteeing being safe in your house? The government has let you down on that, haven't they?


Alan:  I'd say so.


Effie:  In fact, you'd better watch out. They might be the ones that's going to come in there.


Alan:  That's what's always been, when you start to fear authority something is wrong.


Effie:  That's right. Well, I'll tell you the truth of the matter. As far as wanting to live another 10 years or as long as I can, I wouldn't care for that because like you said overnight things could come down.


Alan:  Yes, we're going into a straightjacket.


Effie:  And that's how they're going to do it.


Alan:  I know. It's pretty sad. I always say civilization is a one-way street to the annihilation of free thought. That's the only way it can possibly go. It can't go any other direction. Through science those in control will obviously use all the sciences for control to the maximum. There's no end to where they cannot go and since their main problem is how to control society at all times, then they must eventually annihilate your ability to think independently.


Effie:  It's just this way, one thing leads to another. If you do one thing, you've got to follow-up with another. It just has to be.


Alan:  Science is not going to free people—unless what they mean by that is it will free you of the ability to think independently or to even think at all.


Well, I guess we'll call it a night and we'll see what the future brings. As you say, it's no fun getting up in the morning when you pretty well know what's coming. It's no fun. Things are so predictable now. You don't have to guess about things anymore. The planned society is here.


Effie:  Well, I was thinking the other day and I know I've mentioned it, in case my brother could look at a checker game and in two moves he could tell you how to win. I mean who was going to win and now it's similar to that. You can tell what they're going to do next.


Alan:  I know. Yeah, I know. It's a fact. Well, we'll talk to you next week anyway and we'll see how things evolve.


Effie:  Let's see if we're around.


Alan:  Yeah, see if we're around.


Effie:  See if we're unlucky enough to be around.


Alan:  Yeah, or still in the same place.


Effie:  Good night.


Alan:  Good night.



(Transcribed by Linda)